Did Sulley and Mike do the right thing to Randall?

Probably because you like an unsaid action-packed Disney cartoon featuring a poor girl named Tiana? :wink:

Ha, that’s true Virginia! That, and I’ve been to Louisiana too!

Oh, I remember that, now. :laughing:

I haven’t

Lousiana has more stake really because of the accents in the trailer, they sound from that area apparently rather than Florida. They COULD be people born in Lousiana who moved to Flroida
 but that’s a little less likely.

Oddly it’s also been pondered on the basis of the architecture in Boo’s bedroom (very high ceilings) that Boo lives at or near New Orleans I believe
 which would be interesting.

–

I kind of think an anvil would be too Tex Avery myself. While I do think Monsters are certainly ‘hardier’ than humans they still can get hurt and killed, and that’s why we’re scared for many of the characters when they’re in trouble. They’re not completely impervious after all either physically or emotionally. That’s what makes them good characters.

And I do subscribe to the idea myself that Randall could not have been that ready to kill or to hurt and to have gotten hired in the process. It occurred over time in my view, and a long project on top of a full time job can add to that among other things.

But without getting too off topic here because once again, I feel it’s more how it reflects on the protaganists really that the action of exile should be debated upon. It shouldn’t matter whether Randall is redeemable or not in the case of that argument. Randall’s actions however do mean the action is more understandably tempting, but it doesn’t really interfere much with moral debate since it was at best overkill and there would have been other options. A simple shot of Randall tied up, and later when it’s all over him in the back of the CDA truck is kind of needed instead. Even a scene however where they contemplate the idea of exile but decide not to do it would have been pretty powerful. I mean it could have worked pretty well really. Because while I hate how most media handles the topic of revenge it CAN be handled well and tastefully when it comes to showing how while it’s something we can all desire, it’s ultimately not really worth it.

I think a point to be made in reality is that yes Randall is a person. They’re all people, and the the thing is they have a society it seems on the same level as modern day America despite the inhabitants odd appearance. A major difference however is they have contact with another inhabited world (ours) and they (mistakenly) seem to believe we do not have their level of sentience which they use as a resource (given how Sulley and Mike treat her like she’s a puppy, Randall and Mike call her ‘it’ among other things).

But in the end they are people like us (once again despite their appearance) despite the mistake they make in that regard. They all are.

For instance, what makes Waternoose ultimately scary to me has little to do with his appearance. I mean sure when he’s chasing after Sulley and scrapping at the door, yup that’s pretty scary. But ultimately what makes him scary is the fact he’s a parental figure who turns on the person who looked to him like a father. Someone who trusted him on that level. Maybe even loved. He’d probably be just as scary if they were all humans and he was too. Because that’s kind of the ultimate fear as it were for some. Someone who you rely on at that level, someone you trust enough to go to when you’re in trouble turning on you when you got in the way.

Waternoose isn’t really a very loyal person in the end. Not even to Randall. But that’s not the major problem, the problem is that he can trick you into thinking he is at first. His loyalty is to the company and himself. Other people are expendable. It’s an odd thing but it’s almost something he could share with the CDA. They have their own ultimate aim (protecting the monster world) and if something interferes with that big picture they’ll want rid of it, and if it means expending extra effort which would result in something that doesn’t meet that aim they probably won’t do it. The CDA are not particulary evil, and they’re not someone who would do a torture session for the ‘evulz’ but if they though it went towards their aim, they wouldn’t hesitate much.

In the end all the characters are not really anything less than being on the level of humans who ‘look weird’ which is something ultimately powerful in this movie. Because that’s literally what these characters are like to me. They’re like us or people we know or have at least heard about.

They just look a little different that’s all.

Any lawyer or judge or jury would disagree heartily with you. To use the “self defense” excuse, the individual you harm MUST still be attacking YOU, and you MUST have no other recourse to stop the attack, AND you MUST use only the appropriate amount of force necessary to stop the assault on you. This clearly was NOT the case with Randall at ALL. Randall was already under Sulley’s complete control, and was no longer capable of attacking anyone whosoever. He had completely stopped resisting and was at Sulley’s mercy. Furthermore, from a legal and ethical perspective, Mike and Sulley had to have taken some time to plot as to what to do with Randall, and to bring down one of the doors. I have no doubt whatsoever that they KNEW that there were humans at home, awake, on the other side of that door, and therefore it would be a reasonable assumption that if they threw Randall inside, he’d be attacked, and seriously injured if not killed by those humans. Again, in a legal/ethical sense, this is NOT “self-defense” at all, in no way, shape or form. It does constitute what is known as “LYNCHING”, which means two or more individuals dole out physical punishment, or cause harm to be done to, someone they determine to be guilty of a crime, without the benefit of due process, I.e. a trial by a jury of the accused’s peers. It is a clear-cut case of vigilante “justice”, which is a perversion of what the term “justice” means. It was an act of revenge, as well. Is THIS what Pixar wants their viewers to come away with-thinking that it’s OK to get even with those who do us wrong, to “hit 'em back harder” than they hit us, with disregard to the law? That is certainly what YOU obviously believe in, is it not?

I’d bet my next five paychecks, that if you continue to hold this belief, you will wind up a criminal yourself within the next decade. As a veteran teacher who has nearly 30 years’ experience, I’ve seen that very thought pattern land my former students behind bars too many times. It’s the very core of the “gangsta” culture-someone does you wrong, you do THEM wrong three times worse. By far the overwhelming motive for murder is REVENGE-getting even with someone who’d done you wrong. Juries and judges could care less, though, if that person did something to YOU first, if your retaliation causes them to wind up dead or badly injured. I can guarantee even a rookie lawyer, hired to prosecute Mike and Sulley, would get the book slammed on both of them, and if Randall DID die as a direct result of their actions and planning, it would constitute First Degree Murder, a capital offense in many states. They would be no different than 99% of the murderers sitting on death row. Many of those people killed because their victims had early harmed them in some way, but again, that doesn’t matter from a legal/ethical perspective. A First-Degree Murder charge trumps an ATTEMPTED Murder, or Assault and Battery(in most places, for a charge of “Attempted Murder”, a deadly weapon must be involved) charge any day, any place.

My goal, as an adult and an educator, is to make KIDS THINK, instead of “going off” based solely on emotions. THAT is the problem here; people just react, and it is largely based on a hatred of what Randall IS rather than what he DID.

Let me present THIS for YOU to think about, Evangeline. Suppose you and I get into a fight-not an argument, but a knock-down, slobber-knocker of a fist fight, and I win. BUT, I’m not done with you yet. Simply beating you up and gaining control over you is not enough. I want REVENGE for you having hurt me, and I want to make sure you won’t ever try to hurt me again, so I haul you up to an interstate overpass, and, while you are begging for mercy, through you over it into the path of oncoming cars, where you are struck by a vehicle. Now, [i]I[/i] wasn’t driving that car, so would I be guilty of muder, or at least, attempted murder?

I’ll await your answer.

By the way, I have Jr. High students, including those with “special needs”, in my classes, people aged 12-15, sometimes a tad older. I do not excuse them from having to think. I push and push them to do so and consider the ramifications of their actions because I see so many of them who have fallen prey to that “gangsta” way of thinking, that revenge is a good thing, the way to settle things. I don’t do this for the sake of arguement, but to make y’all THINK about what you’re really saying. Apply what you say about someone else to yourself and realize that it could very, very easily be YOU who is in Randall’s place at some point, having chosen a wrong path and finding yourself in too deep. It happens. Don’t think for one nanosecond that you’re above it or too good for it. If you could substitute a family member for Randall-same situation, different person-how would you want THEM treated?

pitbulllady

Whoa, whoa, calm down. :wink: I never necessarily said that’s what I believe, I was just saying that was most likely Mike and Sulley’s thought process. If I were truly in that situation, I’d probably more or less try to talk the person out of it. It really depends, seeing that I’m not in that situation right now.

WHAT IN THE
 STOP IT NOW! AND DON’T TRY SOME FANCY KNOW HOW ON ME! :imp: WE HAVE OUR OWN OPINIONS DON’T NEED YOU TELLING US WHAT TO DO!!! SO BACK OFF! YOUR NOT OUR PARENTS SO STOP IT!

You’re replies are really excessive, PBL. You need to stop writing novels to us about how we’re ever so wrong and you’re the only right one.

I know I said I wasn’t going to post anymore but that didn’t stop me from reading.

You seem to be going off for no reason. What you do in your life has nothing to do with Monsters Inc so why do you bring it up? I know, you’re trying to teach us a lesson, but you don’t have the right to. We aren’t your students, we aren’t your kids, we are other people on the internet with our own opinions. So you need to calm down.

X1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Hey, hey, seriously, everybody, chill out. pitbulllady, honestly, it’s just a movie, and this is a discussion thread, not a classroom. Also, you all shouldn’t use caps, because it’s considered yelling. :wink:

pitbulllady, I know what you’re saying. But from the start Randall knew he was going to kidnap innocent children. This is never right, and when you get invovled in this, there is no where else to go but down hill. He wasn’t in over his head. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he went along with Waternoose. He’s not innocent at all.

Like I said, Sulley and Mike didn’t kill Randall. They, in their own way, banished him. There is no killing invovled. He wasn’t mudered, or run over by a truck. He’s probably alive and still plotting.

Annnnd
?
No i’m kidding i just realized I had the caps on whoops sorry


haha, Annnnd
 the mods don’t like it. :laughing:

pitbulllady, though I understand and even agree with what you’re saying, you need to calm down in the manner in which you say it. You could make all the points you’ve made without being so strong and forceful, so please tone it down.

mopar5, using all caps in a post and then following that by another post with a repeated figure is considered spamming. Please don’t do this in the future.

Everyone, please calm down. If this conversation isn’t toned down a bit we’ll have to lock it up, which would be a shame. Be considerate in how you speak to others and remember that everyone has different viewpoints. Thank you.

Sorry all
 :frowning: truly am.

We know, Garrett :smiley:

Sorry about the tone in that one I posted a little bit ago


Whomever said this, I thank you, you have no idea how long I’ve wanted to say those very words on here but feared that retaliation would occur both here and elsewhere
you are officially awsome. Also
it’s funny how self defense works, do you know that in the state of Texas, you have the right to defend yourself by bearing arms if you feel threatened when someone comes onto your property or in other words, you can shoot first and ask questions later if you get my meaning
just a little factoid I’m throwing out there because this law in my state does refer to self defense and trust me, it has defended a good many in courts where they win because they did feel threatened
just saying is all.

That was me, haha.

[size=84]OFT: Wait, wait
 you’re from Texas too? =D[/size]
~&~

On Topic: I think Randall got what he deserved. He was corrupted by greed and jealousy, so if he had a change in heart if talked to, it would have to be a large change, or a new plotline for MI:2, Randall’s Revenge :stuck_out_tongue: