Did Sulley and Mike do the right thing to Randall?

Pixar's Feature Films Monsters, Inc. / University
#101

“Acceptable means in the UK” aside…ahem…

Despite the thought process, banishment in any form other than it being handed down as one of the worst punishments in court, is illegal. And needless to say committing it is illegal.
Now, you might say Randall did this as well…however, he was in the “was there, but didn’t stop it”, as it was Waternoose who committed the act and who planned it out. Wazowski may be in the same ballpark, though it might have been his idea, though Sullivan “pulled the trigger sorta speak”.
Regardless, it took Sullivan mere minutes to return to the factory. It would be just as easy for Randall…unless the place he was sent was aimed to cause him injury. They sent him through a scarer door, NOT a Banishment Door, which is what Waternoose put them through. The later is AWAY from humans, meant to be at least a safe START for the banished. The former is more dangerous.
And the mere complications that he would be killed, found, experimented on, being put into a freak show perhaps, isn’t just for him. Any monster sent through illegally is facing more risk than they have to.

As for kidnapping, the lines on human kidnapping is flimsy. Actually Randall would in a “charge” sense be charged with “Attempted kidnapping”, as it WAS actually Sullivan who kept her in the Monster World. He could have easily told Randall about the “girl that came through” and Randall, wanting to keep things quite, would agree to not tell about Sullivan’s sleuthing if they both kept things quite. (afterall Randall could claim he was working overtime, which isn’t an illegal thing at all).

#102

I don’t know how “safe” the locale of a real Banishment door would be, especially the one that Waternoose had(also illegal, I might add), which led to the Himalayas, one of the harshest places on the planet. A big, furry monster like Sulley or the Abominable Snowman could stand a chance of survival there, but one like Mike or Randall or Fungus, with their smaller lung capacity(keep in mind that the oxygen levels at such high altitudes are much lower than what most of us, or most monsters, are adapted to) and lack of protective covering, wouldn’t stand a chance. I have little doubt that Waternoose fully intended for whoever he threw into that huge metal door to die of exposure, thus ensuring they’d never be a problem for him again, just as I have no doubt that Mike and Sulley intended for Randall to be attacked and killed by the humans that they surely knew were inside that trailer. Most banished monsters would most likely perish when thrown out away from civilization, since they are just as dependent on modern ammenities and comforts as we are. How many of YOU think you would last very long if you were dumped somewhere in a remote wilderness, without even things like matches? Unless you’re Bear Gryls or someone specially trained in long-term wilderness survival tactics, probably you wouldn’t last very long, and your death would be slow and painful as you starved to death or succumbed to the elements. Monsters are no better equipped than we are for wilderness survival, and every bit as dependent on things that most of us take for granted. Banishment was essentially meant to be a death penalty; a banished monster either faced a slow death by starvation or freezing, etc., or they faced the prospect of being captured, killed or tortured by humans, or the torture of mental breakdown from the isolation, being that they are social beings just like us.

Again, any “kidnapping” charges against Randall would NOT involve Boo at all, otherwise Sulley would be just as guilty! It was Sulley, after all, who let her into the factory AND who was holding her all this time, without her parents’ consent or knowledge. Most child kidnappings are actually “benign”, which means that the child is kidnapped by someone who does NOT mean them harm and actually is emotionally attached to the child, usually a non-custodial parent. It’s still kidnapping, though, if that person does not have custody of the child or permission to keep or harbor the child from the custodial parent/guardian. But, as I explained already, “kidnapping” only involves your own species or at least one acknowledged to be equal in every respect by the law. Human children obviously were not considered equal to monster children, or even close. If Randall were a human and had wanted to kidnap a human child, I’d have a problem with that, or if he wanted to kidnap a monster child instead, but the only kidnapping charge that could be leveled against him, legally or morally, was for taking MIKE, and that was accidental! He didn’t know it was Mike at the time, and the only aspect which would make THAT a kidnapping was that he didn’t allow Mike to simply leave when he discovered his error. All of the problems with bringing in a human child to the Monster World stemmed purely from the belief that human children posed a threat to the monsters, NOT the other way around. I can guarantee that if Randall had designed the Scream Extractor to be portable, where it could be carried into a child’s room straight from the start, and tested it by taking it to the children instead of the other way around, no one would have had any problem with it whatsoever, and there wouldn’t have even been such a big need for secrecy. He’d have been breaking no laws at all if he could have done it that way, but apparently he was only abler to design a large prototype that made it necessary to first bring children to the machine and most likely once the technology was proven to actually work, Waternoose would have had someone else “streamline” it, to make it smaller and portable, before going public with it and getting it approved, and of course by then Randall would have been out of the picture completely.

pitbulllady

#103

Apologies if I’m forgetting something from the film, but I thought that the CDA would send the kid back through its door, then destroy the door.

And, um, no, vigilante justice is not okay in the U.K. Actually, I think it might be slightly harder to fight a criminal (in your home at least) in the UK, because you can’t have a gun to protect yourself on your own property as you can in the States (although that’s nothing to do with lynching). I’m not sure though. I think that on a whole our laws are fairly similar, although there are some differences in our justice system.

#104

There are many Banishment doors, and many could related to the monster in question. For instance, AB seemed to be quite adapt to the Himalayas…then again that was if he WAS banished normally. Now that I think about it, given how long the AB mystery has been about, he was probably sentenced centuries ago.

prods head That is an interesting thought Nausicaa. It has been noted that Harry Hausens was DESTROYED because of a human child SIGHTING. And we SEE how they treat just a sock.
Now as for death…Perhaps it is a moral thing. If the kid died, then it would cause distress on the other side of the closet door. And perhaps there are monster “human activists” or something. Relatively…who KNOWS really…at first they aimed to KILL whatever came through but…

folds arms It’s almost as if in the end, the C.D.A. at bulk DID NOT KNOW humans weren’t toxic…but it might be that all along…Roz knew they weren’t.

#105

I voted for No. Randall deserved his chance to give an explanation, but in the end I completely agree with what Lizard Girl said at the top of this thread.

Good point. I think that’s a big reason i’d get some satisfaction out of seeing Randall in the sequel, to see Sulley and Mike’s issues with him put to rest and “redeeming” them in regards to Randall.

#106

So true. If Randall is never even mentioned at all in the sequel, OR if he’s simply mentioned in a very negative light, yet does not appear in either case, it would indicate to me that Mike and Sulley are without a conscience, and incapable of feeling guilt, which would certainly put THEM in the category of how criminlogists think of “evil”. It would make sociopaths of them both, unable to empathize or sympathize with THEIR victim at all, or see anything at all wrong with their own actions-the exact things so many of Randall’s haters accuse HIM of.
Two wrongs still do not make a right, folks.

pitbulllady

#107

Come to think of it, maybe they were a bit too harsh on him. Maybe he has a family, who’ll worry about what happened to him and where he went. They could have done worse though. They could have killed him by throwing him of the ledge, or Sulley could have easily broke his neck. If they did that though, they’d be wanted for murder, even though Randall was doing the wrong thing as well.

#108

Good point, Geoff. Of course they would never actually have killed him directly, but what they’ve done is potentially kill him indirectly- something that would certainly play on my conscience. Even if he wasn’t killed, it’s not like Mike and Sulley know that for certain. As pitbulllady said, if no mention is made of Randall by Mike and Sulley, it’s admitting the fact that they could potentially have killed someone, but that they don’t care. It’s just not a nice thought.

#109

ALSO, it was not Mike and Sulley’s responsibility OR rights to decide on ANY punishment for Randall at all. THAT should have been left up to the justice system which obviously was in place in Monstropolis. For them to decide on his fate, regardless of what he’d done, would be like me decided to imprison or execute the person who broke into my own home many years ago, and carrying out those “sentences” myself, in my own way, without any arraignment or trial or legal representation on either side. That’s hardly “justice”, is it, no matter how I might feel about the person who did that. It is disturbing that so many on this board DO believe that vigilantism and revenge are perfect means to dealing with those who have wronged them, yet at the same time they do not even briefly consider that one day THEY might be the ones in Randall’s situation, who do something wrong and make someone else angry, and they do not consider whether or not THEY would want to at least be given the benefit of a fair trial and legal representation, probably because many do not believe that they themselves would ever, ever be capable of doing anything wrong or bad or illegal in the first place. Those little fake halos and angel wings are much more fragile than they realize.

As for Randall’s family, Geoff, I myself doubt he had one. Think about it-if YOU disappeared at your job or at school, never to be seen or heard from again, and the two individuals last known to be with you at the time of your “disappearance”, two people who were also known to have “issues” with you prior to that, are promoted and glorified and even put on a “play” in which you are publicly ridiculed, how would YOUR family react? I know that most would have been all over that workplace or school or whatever, with their lawyers and investigators, like flies on a dead horse, if they cared anything about you at all, and that “play” never would have taken place, and that person who was suspected of having had a role in your “disappearance” certainly never would have been promoted and rewarded, but would have been the focus of intensive and grueling investigations/interrogations. We’ve all seen that Sulley isn’t very good at lying, and surely if anyone had pushed him as for what happened to Randall, he’d have cracked like an egg, and probably wound up in prison himself, or at the least would have been lucky to work as a janitor from that point onward. Obviously, no one did, because there was no one who cared about Randall at all, anywhere. Now, even the most vile of criminals usually have SOMEONE who does care about them and loves them, so it’s obvious that Randall’s family had not simply turned their backs on him due to his attitude. The only logical explanation is that they didn’t exist; they were either all dead or had long since abandoned him, probably when he was still a child, and he’d basically learned that if he was to have anything, he couldn’t count on anyone else, but had to get it for himself. Just try to imagine for once, how your own outlook would change, if you knew that not one person in the entire world cared if you lived or died, or would even notice if you just ceased to exist-think that would change your behavior or the way you treat others? Face it-one of the main reasons that most of us avoid doing things that are illegal, or bad, is because of the guilt we would feel over how our loved ones would be affected by our actions, and often this has a greater impact on our decisions than the fear of what punishment WE might receive if we are caught. For many of us, the knowledge of how our actions would let our loved ones down and hurt them is far greater a incentive NOT to choose the wrong path than knowing what punishment would await us if we are caught in our law-breaking. But what if you didn’t have anyone, anyone at all, not one single person you knew “had your back”?

pitbulllady

#110

Personally my stance on Randall’s family is that they’re either not there or simply not worth talking about. (As in abandonment etc. as stated).

I think as I’ve stated before a thing which makes sense to me is that the CDA helped smooth things over- and the reason the play went a head (with CDA supervision) was because it was displayed as FICTION.

The thing is the whole thing would seem supicious.

I wonder if… Waternoose was accused of ‘getting rid’ of Randall. (Wowa interesting thought there. How was Randall’s disapperance explained? I know in the comics it seemed like they made out he’d gone to the human world delibrately… or something like that, a delibrate fugitive if you will. Maybe the same idea? Of course it’s a lie. It’s just that someone disappearing like that and not being questioned over is WEIRD.)

The CDA… they are creeeepy.

Of course once again, the creators didn’t intend for this sort of thing to come across at all. The story was supossed to be perfect, complete They probably didn’t think too much on it as well as some other issues surrounding Randall generally. While in terms of their creation, it’s definitly a mistake, it’s a very interesting possibility to run with. It CAN be made to make sense… in a well directed sequel if they don’t completely ignore the issue.

Plus Sulley’s personality of course makes… for some interesting and potential future drama. Mike can lie, Sulley can’t. Sulley feels guilt and admits to mistakes far more easily than Mike too.

He can also be observant on occasion.

He doesn’t exactly fit the ideal of the CEO. It’s going to be very difficult for him. Plus… the CDA… I somehow feel if they’re kept in character and their behaviour isn’t skated over, they’ll get under his fur in some form. In a scary kind of way. He ‘owes’ them for covering it up. The CDA… aren’t the kind of people you want to be in debt towards. Add guilt to the action ITSELF (which I think Sulley very likely would feel eventually), the general stress and fear and the interest I have is HUGE.

Heroes make mistakes, it goes with the story. A hero fixing a big mistake despite being afraid is awe-inspiring and amazing. After all to be brave means doing the right thing no matter how hard it is.

I’m pretty interested in what will happen to Sulley, he’s my favourite, and like Randall I think he has a lot of untapped potential in a sequel.

As I’ve also said earlier (and been recently requoted over), it’s probably also just a fact that Pixar focus on the protaganistical story. Now antagonists in Pixar? Sometimes they are redemeed (… sort of), but most often they are not. Usually the focus is on the protagnists, and what happened with Randall… it makes MIKE’S AND SULLEY’S story incomplete and it’s the main issue in the end given their general style of story telling. As this is their primary focus is really them (plus Boo) I guess like most movies. The protaganists. It’s their story. The antagonists are a major part sometimes but yeah, they’re not the absolute main focus.

Randall didn’t have to be redeemed in the first movie, if he’d been taken to the authorities instead and we’d seen him taken away like Waternoose? Yes, by Pixar’s standards the story would by rights could be said to be complete. In a way there would have been some missed opportunities regarding Randall, but given their primary focus (Sulley and Mike, the protaganists) that isn’t always their main concern.

Their appearance is not completely tarnished in this senario.

People can write stories where Sulley hires Randall after he gets out of prison.

Etc etc. And in such stories it’s bitterweet almost and really awkwards since Randall wanted Sulley to work for him. Pride gets in the way. Weird but awesome friendships. You know the score.

If they make Randall into an all out baddy and try to make it look as if that means it’s perfectly fine to do it, it would be pretty terrible even disregarding the idea of it being simply boring and disheartening. Even so it wouldn’t negate or wipe clean what happened.

Plus it would be kind of cheap if they tried to wave if off as okay like that by tunring Randall pure evil. Even if Randall was pure evil, it still wouldn’t be okay.

#111

Thank you for bringing something up that most people tend to forget Geoff.
Monsters are similiar to Humans. They have law, they have an economy, and they have families. Now…we know Sullivan has a family, as does Wazowski (and Celia…though the only remark that comes up, not in film, refers to her mother (who seems rather against men)). As for Randall…he might have had a family. taps chin Who knows. Maybe the reason he agreed to the Scream Extractor in the first place was to get a better position TO support a family.

Good point. If there is a sequel, if Randall isn’t at least referranced (and I DON’T mean like a stupid “WANTED” poster or something because that’s just a stab in the back considering Sullivan and Wazowski got off banishing someone scottfree, and even rewarded, as the C.D.A. did NOTHING.

There is more lean-way that Randall’s family (talking mother, father, brother, sis what have you) was either something he didn’t have for most of his life (Abandoned, orphaned, what have you, which lead to a desire to better himself), that they were enstranged, or possibly…they didn’t care about him. But honestly, the first, that he didn’t have them for most of his life, seems more probable. The fact that NOBODY came to that company play on his behalf (perhaps to learn about this “fictiounous play based on the child incident” might lead to clues), leans more toward this.
I’m unsure if Sullivan would count in the “issues” department. Wazowski? Probably certainly. There was tension between Sullivan and Randall, about the scare record thing, but I doubt that it became openly know, unless speculation was made by other workers.

One BIG thing about the play that made people believe it was fictionous…it was made “entirely” by Micheal Wazowski.
Waternoose WOULD blame EVERYTHING on Randall, as he was his scapegoat. However, the fact that Randall wouldn’t be around to take the blame would probably surprise him. Actually…I think Waternoose WOULD be surprised at Sullivan, if he learned about what he did. A sorta “step in the direction” of filling the “CEO shoes”. As for how they would explain it. Could be as simply as the C.D.A. saying Randall was involved in it all and that he was on the run. Untrue of course, but then again, it’s not like the C.D.A. are inexperienced in the matter.

Sullivan also doesn’t even FIT at all to be a CEO. His only thing going for him is a drive to work well and knowing his employees. The stress, paperwork, responsibility, and all the duties entitled to a CEO (especially one with skeletons in the closet) would be too much for him. He doesn’t even have experience (yes, one year is not enough, especially when he had to deal with proposing Laugh Energy). Why stay? Because he doesn’t want another Waternoose to pick up the pieces. In fact…Sullivan better hope he doesn’t become like Waternoose himself. grins
There is high chance that, in terms for Randall, the C.D.A. DON’T want Sullivan to tell about what he had done. Think about it. A citizen commiting banishment without punishment or conviction? And then it was covered up? shakes head The reptilian community will certainly be in an uproar. You KNOW that allot of people who looked up to Randall in his Top Scarer days won’t believe some of the lies the C.D.A. use to cover it up.

#112

I think they did do the right thing but when Randall said wait we never knew what he was going to say. He could of wanted to say something serious or just trick them. I think Randall would trick them because he has a very devious mind. They’re lucky they never gave him the chance. :smiley:

#113

While I do think that anybody would say anything, lies and all to be let off such a thing…
I really think they should have listened. Wazowski wouldn’t believe Randall at all, but Sulley might, but he was far too gone for listening.

It’s DRASTICALLY different from Waternoose’s end, where he goes so much to threaten Sullivan and “psyche attack” him about ruining Monsters Inc.
Randall on the other hand was begging…rather pitifully at that.

I, personally, would have listened. Randall couldn’t get out of the situation, and listening for a minute or two wouldn’t have changed that (if Randall was able to get out of the hold, he would have done so in the MINUTES that had passed).

I just…I just can’t agree with it. Not listening is a great problem in the world…

#114

I think “Let me explain” was just a standart line for villains who are about to get what they deserved. I like Randall as a character, but in this case, same excuses can be found for almost every villain. Not to mention that when Sulley and Mike managed to get Waternoose’s confession, they had nothing but their words to accuse Randall to hand him to CDA. Anyway, i didn’t look that deep when I was watching MI for the first time. I found that scene funny. :sunglasses:

#115

(sighs) Here we go again…

If Randall really WAS a villain who was getting what he deserved, and villains really do plead for mercy, then, for one, why didn’t Waternoose use the pleading when he was being taken away? Everyone will agree HE was a villain, yet he exploded even more and used threats, unlike Randall.

#116

My point is that Waternoose believed what he did was right (not only for him, but for all city), even when he was being taken away by CDA. He didn’t plead because he didn’t feel guilty. Although I agree he is a villain, of course.

#117

So, you’re saying that Randall did what he did for the heck of it? The only difference I see in their motives is that Randall was also ordered to do much of what he did, including trying to kill Mike and Sulley.

#118

Boo hitting him with the bat? He deserved that :slight_smile:) getting thrown through another door? Possibly, and it should have ended there. But NO, he HAD to get hit by that shovel, didn’t he??
And do they even have closets in trailers?
i think that was just inhumane and overreacting.

#119

No not at all. Randall was actually in a weird situation…Mr. Waternoose was the one in charge and telling him what to do and what would have happened to Randall if he didn’t listen to Mr. Waternoose? He already saw Sulley get banished by Mr. Waternoose before and Sulley was Mr. Waternoose’s favourite scarer. So what would happen to Randall if he didn’t listen to Mr. Waternoose?

Of course it’s true he didn’t like Mike or Sulley very much so he probably wanted to deal with them to a degree anyway but they didn’t exactly like Randall at all either.

So anyway I don’t think Randall is really as bad as he was portrayed to be. No I don’t think he’s a SAINT but neither are the other characters in the movie really.

Anyway even if he actually was pure evil(which I don’t think he) I still wouldn’t agree with it simply because I don’t really agree with treating anyone that way(I don’t agree with the death penalty since it’s like taking revenge and lowering yourself to the same level). You can’t say it was in self-defense either because clearly Sulley had managed to restrain Randall at that point. He had him secure in his grip. There was no need to do what they did after that point, and could have simply taken him to the authorities(and if the authorities had looked into it, I’m sure Randall wouldn’t have been in too much trouble since he wasn’t the person in charge and something very bad probably would have happened to Randall had he not listened to Mr. Waternoose and it’s very reasonable for Randall to assume so).

Mr. Waternoose didn’t get as worse a fate as Randall even though he was clearly the ring leader of the whole thing.