How To Train Your Dragon vs Toy Story 3

The Common Room Film, Television, Music & Books
#61

Who said that? Or was it mentioned a few pages by someone I’ve forgotten a few pages back?

I wouldn’t blame JL or anyone for ‘not directing it’. If anything, I would blame Unkrich for the style of the film, but that’s not to say I didn’t like it. Just that, like you, I had expected more from it, and while it certainly met my expectations, I didn’t feel a connection as deep as I felt for other movies. In other words, it is a movie I enjoyed, but not one I would spend my free time pontificating its philosophy or making corny Youtube parodies about (If you know me, my videos are rather corny, laugh out loud).

That was a rather interesting point. Perhaps it was its departure in tone and mood from its precedent that some people didn’t appreciate it as much. As I’ve mentioned earlier, it is like the ‘At World’s End’ of Pixar movies, it took itself a little too seriously and the mood was rather sombre throughout, only to be lightened up towards the end.

Aw… why? It is fun to debate these sort of things, and even if you don’t manage to convince everyone, you’re still confident in the fact that you yourself can remain loving the movie with all your heart, and nothing will change that.

I agree. It is underappreciated by some people because it comes from a ‘lesser’ studio, though to be fair that may not be the only reason, I suppose. I still have to say it is one of the best animated films of the decade from a non-Pixar/Ghibli studio.

I don’t think you’re necessarily ‘anti-Pixar’ if you geniunely like other studios’ films. You’d only be considered so if you hated all their movies, which I’m pretty sure is not the case. :wink: Anyone who says otherwise is a close-minded critic incapable of criticising Pixar for valid reasons, and endorsing other studios on their own merits.

#62

It was me that said Kung Fu Panda was atrotious, because in my own personal opinion it was. The main character was an undeserving cretin, which annoyed me greatly, and it didn’t make me even chuckle once but that’s another topic altogether.

#63

…The Incredibles did not take itself too seriously, and I like all 3 POTC’s.

Anyway, I guess I don’t care. I can’t control who wins, and I like both films really well, so whatever. :neutral_face:

#64

I have to agree with ICV, I don’t think The Incredibles took itself too seriously at all.

#65

Thanks, Leon. Just because something is animated, doesn’t mean it’s for children. That’s like saying all live action is for adults, which is, at the least, completely untrue.

Not for adults:

Not(necessarily) just for kids:

#66

I agree, I was referring to TS3 (although now that I read my post, I should have stated that since the sentence carries on from IV’s mention of The Incredibles). TS3 was the one (I felt) departed in tone and moods from its precedents. Incedibles didn’t have any precedent, so it can stand on its own, and it lent itself to the superhero/spy genre which is bound to have some intense moments of peril and danger. On retrospect, the toys have been trying to keep their gang together and survive throughout the course of the series, but for some reason, that sense of inevitable fatalist dread felt amplified in this sequel.

Hmm… I would describe him in less harsh terms. I felt Po had good intentions (he did adore and respect everyone, although for his idols, it was to the point of ‘gushing fanboy’), and he did try his best at living up to the ‘Dragon Warrior’ title (until he learnt that the others didn’t share the same enthusiasm as him, which greatly hurt his feelings). Lack of intelligence or strength does not necessarily mean one is incapable of becoming a hero, though it would certainly help. It is his courage, belief in his talents (or in this case, physical attributes), and desire to protect others from harm that made Po the saviour of his Valley, regardless of whether he was worthy or an ‘undeserving cretin’.

To suggest otherwise would be tantamount to saying only smart or strong people can be heroes, which we know is not always the case. However, if you did lack bravery, self-confidence, and an altruistic motive, it is highly unlikely you can become a hero.

#67

Oh, sorry, I totally misread your previous post.

(I love Po, but I see your point now).

#68

True, you don’t have to be an athlete and Eistein to be a hero, the trouble is though, you have this group of people that have prepared, trained hard etc, but this ill prepared fanboy (essentially) is the one who becomes the hero. It wasn’t his intelligence or build.

That’s just my view though. I mean no offence.

#69

None taken, but correct me if I’m wrong - wasn’t there a training montage two-thirds through the film? Granted, some might argue he got the hang of things a little too easily, but we don’t know the extent of the passage of time, and Shifu was clever enough to exploit Po’s love of food to push his physical boundaries.

The classic training montage has also been used in various movies like The Incredibles, HTTYD, [spoil]LOTG[/spoil], Hercules, Mulan, Rocky, the recent and the old Karate Kid, et cetera, et cetera. It is a film shorthand for the amount of effort a protagonist puts in to improve oneself, but you probably already knew that.

My point is, Po didn’t become a hero through some miracle. He did so through sheer perseverance and confidence in his natural talents, in addition to his admiration and congeniality towards everyone, unlike say, Shrek or Lightning McQueen. Tai Lung wasn’t the hero because he got too power-hungry, and Tigress, though more capable and having trained longer, wasn’t either because she was too possessive and envious.

There are cases of accidental heroes, by the way, such as John McClane, Ripley, Buzz Lighyear, et cetera but that’s because they had the knowledge and experience before the start of the movie which they put to good use at defeating the villain. Some, such as Remy, may be naturally gifted but disadvantaged at other areas (such as being a creature most humans despise), but they still triumph because of their tenacity and courage. Others, such as Russell or Carl, have no fighting skills whatsoever (or in the case of ‘Combat Carl’, not clearly established in the beginning of the movie), but still defeat the baddie because of a combination of luck and ‘doing the right thing’, and classic Hollywood formulas dicate the good guys always win.

Same goes for Po. He may be a panda that most people assume is not kung-fu material. He is ill-prepared and somewhat deluded in the beginning, with no practical combat skills whatsoever (though later he gains it in the ‘Training Montage 101’). And he is the archetypal case of a reluctant hero tasked with saving his people from a force of evil. But all these odds stacked against him make his ultimate epic win all the more satisfying because he worked at rising above these limitations and ‘did the right thing’, no matter how improbable his achievement might be in a ‘realistic’ sense.

#70

Shouldn’t you spoiler-tag [spoil]LOTG[/spoil], TDIT? :smiley:

I <3 training montages. Sorry, but they inspire me.

#71

I agree. As cliche as they are, they’re still awesome.

#72

I have to say, I’m really enjoying this year in animation because I can’t decide! Starting this Tuesday, the first evening I have time to stop at Best Buy on my way home from work, I am getting both the super TS Trilogy Blu-Ray box, and the Blu-Ray of HTTYD, and I can watch them both again and debate which is better. But, right now, all I can say is that I really admired and enjoyed both of them, and I would not be upset to see either one win Animated Feature, and would be delighted if they both made it in to Best Picture.

Last year’s award season was agony, because I loved (and love) “Up” from the deepest, most irrational depths of my heart, and couldn’t bear to hear anyone (Richard Corliss at Time Magazine, I’m still looking at you!) say that any other animated film last year could possibly be better than my darling “Up.” I was going to irrationally despise forever any movie that dared to beat it for Animated Feature.

This year - I remember being so engrossed by HTTYD, really on the edge of my seat, wondering, “How are they going to resolve this?” I honestly would not have been surprised if one of the major characters (Hiccup/Toothless/Stoick) didn’t make it through the film. TS3, honestly I liked better on second viewing - it does have a big streak of melancholy running through it, and I recall having some “I can’t believe they’re doing this!” :open_mouth: moments (and no, not the big climax, more for the “operation Andy’s cell phone” scene, and some of the “prison break” stuff). Most importantly, I feel like HTTYD and TS3 are both intelligent, emotional, and entertaining films made by people who really cared about the story they were telling.

And just to add one more factor into the mix - on just a silly, fun level, I really enjoyed Despicable Me. It’s not trying to be anything ground-breaking or life-altering, but I found it really charming and sweet and am eager to see it again, too. It probably won’t even be in the mix, but I’d love to see it get the “also-ran” slot in Best Animated Feature.

#73

Thanks for pointing that out, IV, the movie’s not on DVD yet and I wouldn’t wanna spoilt that it has such a sequence.

karly05 really nailed it for me. It’s so difficult to choose this year as we have a fantastic crop of animated movies (which is more than I can say for live-action :unamused:).

I also agree Despicable Me should get a mention. Its ending and climax brought me closer to tears than TS3 did, surprisingly. Really, I don’t know why. Maybe I connected with the characters in there more I guess (which again, is very intriguing, since I’ve ‘known’ Woody and the Gang much longer).

On reflection, I don’t think LOTG would (and should) get a Best Pic mention, because of its underwhelming pacing. But it should most definitely get a Best Animated Nom and a Best Special Effects Win at least. And really, I love LOTG as much as the other three movies above, so, really, I find it hard to pick a ‘favourite’ this year.

#74

I rewatched Dragon the other day. As enjoyable and insanely awesome as it was, I still perfer Toy Story 3.

I can’t wait to see which one wins the Oscar! They’re both great.

#75

Yeah, I’ll go with Karly05. I’m getting dogged on in the TS forum for having issues with TS3, so I’ll lie, and say I can’t choose. :unamused: Yay for mean people…

#76

I thought that whilst HTTYD was quite a good film, I just found TS3 more enjoyable. It’s a little unfair comparing a sequel to an original movie though (although it was based on a book). Whilst I liked HTTYD, I didn’t think that it completely lived up to the comments I’d been hearing about it on websites such as this one. That said, it was a good movie, and I thought the filmmakers were very brave in some of their choices. I may enjoy it more the second time I watch it…

#77

Nausicaa, the movie was way better after a couple of extra views. :wink:

#78

So, posting again after the Battle of the Blu-Rays - and I’m not going to make a decision. TS3 and HTTYD are each unique and great, and I’m just going to sit back and enjoy them both. :smiley:

I’m going to call down the wrath of the “Cars” fans on myself, but darn it, Dreamworks, I really really wish you’d held HTTYD until 2011, because I suspect it would have won Best Animated Feature for next year, hands down! I think TS3 still has the Oscar edge this year, for reasons including the residual love for TS and TS2, the general respect for Pixar, and the fact that, despite being about talking toys, TS3 is rooted in a contemporary, real-world setting (and the Oscars usually seem to favor “contemporary real life” to “epic fantasy world”).

Oh, and a comment about the Oscar campaigns - I’ve seen the “For Your Consideration” ads for HTTYD on the Awards Daily site - they are using the image of Hiccup and Toothless, where Hiccup has his face turned away, holding out his hand, and Toothless is just about to touch his nose to Hiccup’s hand… This is a very smart move on Dreamworks’ part, and similar to Pixar’s campaign for Up last year, which focused on the Carl/Ellie images from Married Life: Remind the voters of the elements in your film that touched them emotionally and made them think, “Hey, this isn’t just Some Cartoon!” In comparison, while the Movie-Spoofing/Referencing ads for TS3 are clever, and fun for the Fans, I think the Oscar campaign for TS3 would do better by using images from the Andy/Bonnie scene, or the Incinerator.

#79

I love how Dreamworks and Pixar just switched roles since Dreamworks is known for their parodies and Pixar’s known for it’s genuine. I have to admit, even the movies seem to have switched roles. How To Train Your Dragon builds on the relationship, like many other great Pixar movies while Toy Story 3 had loads of gags since we already knew those characters (not counting the ending of course).

I’ve decided that I’ll go with How To Train Your Dragon though. Idk why but no matter how many times I watch it, I still feel so sucked into the world, like I want to capture every single detail of it. I just love the experience and I just love getting sucked into Berk.

#80

I choose how to train your dragon, Not toy story 3 all though i did like toy story 3, It didn’t ever come close to the AWESOME-NESS of How to train your dragon.
HTTYD Has a much better story ,I mean what could be cooler then Vikings and Dragons, The music is a lot more enjoyable ( it makes you feel like your soaring through the skies )

I know a lot of toy story 3 fans are not liking me right now but Sorry i’m a How to train your dragon Fanatic :slight_smile: :smiley: :slight_smile: :smiley: