Nixon On Abortion

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#21

Ok, I’m still a bit confused because you didn’t answer my questions. I’m sure you could explain to me your stance and justification on murdering those who have abortions. Is the murder and drug trafficking rate lower than those countries who don’t have capital punishment as an punishment for those offences? If it is, then I may be able to understand your point of view a bit better.

When you say “this tough love is absolutely necessary”, I assume you’re talking about capital punishment? For what crime - possessing drugs or murder? Why is it necessary to use capital punishment, rather than locking up a criminal for life? If taking away a life via an abortion is murder, than why is it ok to murder a murderer? It seems like such a double-standard to me.

I don’t know the statistics of homeless people in each country, sorry. Does that point really have place in this discussion? I don’t think you can compare Western and Asian countries like that though because they are all so different with their laws and way of dealing with issues, but every country has it’s own problems. Would you compare Japan to the US? Taiwan to Australia? Sweden to Vietnam? They all have different value systems, and can’t so much be easily lumped together or compared.

Actually, I admire the “tough love” parenting style of some Asian countries, to some extent because it can help kids to keep on the straight and narrow. I read on a book about child development that in an Asian country (I don’t remember specifically which country, it could have been China) with child-rearing, the emphasis to deter bad behaviour is put on what you are doing to the group with that behaviour, rather than what you’re doing to yourself, which is how US parents typically address bad behaviour of children.

Anyway, I guess I’m getting a bit off-topic. If you would care to explain your views on abortion a bit more as well as address my questions, then I’d like to read them, Dragon.

#22

Because humans tend to deter from doing the right things. No matter how strong a person’s determination is, when it comes to desperate situations, people would still make selfish decisions to do these things (abortion, drug-trafficking; whatever). It’s this impending thread of death penalty that makes making such decisions that much harder and, as proven by the lack of chaos in my country, it works.

Again, I must emphasize that this is only applied to people who are hurting others for their own needs. If people really must do certain stuff to save their lives, the law will make sure that those people are treated fairly and given the proper judgment as appropriate. As I’ve said a lot of times, the law is fair; it’s the humans who made them that aren’t at times (when we are faced with corrupted politicians and such).

Yes, I could… assume, at best, that countries who practice capital punishments do have a lower rate of murder and drug-trade. My mum had always told me about how chaotic America is, that many people carries guns and murder occurs there everyday. Here, in Singapore, it’s not that big of a problem because of the serious penalties that come with murder and drug-trade. Kidnapping also results to a death penalty, too, most of the times (or all of the times; I couldn’t remember which) as the possibility of the kidnapper killing off the kidnapped is very high in many of such scenarios.

Between a death penalty and a lifetime imprisonment, which would you say is more threatening? Naturally, it would be the former. Again, you must remember, the code of law states the word, 'punishable," meaning that the criminal may or may not be punished with a death sentence. It’s a case by case basis. It’s just that when everyone starts talking about how murder is punishable by death, it would sound more threatening and, thus, less murders would happen because of that fear, that threat. Do note that, however, I’m not indicating that a country should be ruled by fear. As I would like to say, “If your conscious is clear, there’s nothing to fear.”

~ Flare

#23

In my opinion abortion and the death penalty are completely wrong. However, with the death penalty your punishing a grown adult who knew better. With
abortion you’re killing an unborn child… a completely innocent unborn child! And is it right that that child should be killed for it’s parent’s mistake? In in case of rape, it’s still bad. If the child is not able to be cared for, he/she should be given up for adoption.

#24

That’s a queer view. And I’d much rather have a free nation with it’s few problems then one that’s restrictive.

Isn’t there already a thread for this topic? Coulda sworn there was.

#25

Fix’d.

~ Flare

#26

Hey! A totalitarian state’s got no problems, eh?! :smiley:

#27

Not true (Singapore’s a democratic country, just for your info). As I said, the law is fair; it’s the humans that made them that’s flawed. That’s why having total human control by a government system in a country is only a recipe for disaster. No system is perfect, as humans will always be flawed. But are the correct sets of law fair? You bet.

~ Flare

#28

I know.

So these flawed humans somehow were able to create laws that are not flawed? Also don’t understand how any government is not human controlled. Maybe there’s computers in some country making every decision.

#29

We are flawed, but we are not stupid. Our intelligence helps us that much to create the fair set of laws. A democratic system might be that good, either, because people follow the crowd, so if one person votes for the candidate with somewhat unfair sets of law, the chances of others doing the same is quite high, though there are wiser ones that would choose correctly.

We are like that; there’s nothing we could do to change it. We could only suppress our flaws and try to make the best and most fair decisions as possible when it comes to the law.

~ Flare

#30

I answer that question by saying that God commanded the death penalty, and not abortion, in the Old Testament of the Bible. Most people here (or anywhere for that matter) probably will not accept my answer since it comes from the Bible, but as a Christian, that’s the answer I’m giving you.

#31

Death penalty for working on Sundays? Sounds good.

#32

That statement is so out of place that I’m not even going to try and explain to you.

~ Flare

#33

You know that that is not what I said. I had hoped that we could discuss abortion without turning this into a bash thread, but maybe that just isn’t possible.

If you want to know what Jesus said about working on Sunday, read Luke 13.

#34

But in a secular society and government, why should YOUR personal, religious beliefs have any place at all in creating laws? And even if they did, why are you still picking and choosing which passages of the Old Testament to follow?

#35

The laws are created by the lawmakers’ personal/religious beliefs. If I was a lawmaker, then any law that I voted for would have to agree with my personal views. That goes for everyone.

Personally, I think that our current laws are too linient. Galatians 5 states, “the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Also, here is a good article that looks like it gives a detailed look at what Jesus would do concerning the death penalty. learnthebible.org/would-jesu … nalty.html

#36

I’ll believe that when the Jewish lobby starts pushing for banning pork and shellfish. Laws made for a government of such a wide range of religions, sects, beliefs, etc should be based on the greater good and freedom of all people. If you want to live in a society where religion is the law of the land try moving to Iran.

More proof of the malleability of the messages of the bible and why there shouldn’t be a religious basis for governmental laws. How many other sects have interpreted the same issue and passages in different ways? I assume you follow many other aspects of the Mosaic law then?

#37

The Old Testament describes the Jewish/Cristian god as a true massive murderer so I don’t think is a good place to look for ideas, honestly.

About death penalty for abortion or anything… yeah that’s the thery… that has benn the thery… now face the reality and look if it has worked or not :laughing: :laughing: