The Bad Guys

Pixar's Feature Films
#17

Yeah. A lot of them were handled in a self-defense way(Sid, Stinky Pete, Lotso) and didn’t even die or suffer physical harm. So them deserving it isn’t even a question in my mind. And for Muntz, Syndrome and Randall…well, what else is there to do? Capital punishment may seem harsh, but personally, I’d rather die quickly than sit in prison. :stuck_out_tongue:

And you’re welcome. I probably seemed really defensive in my last post, but that’s because whenever I say anything on this subject, you-know-who butts in and out right attacks me. :stuck_out_tongue: Just so you know, because it wasn’t aimed at you.

#18

shrugs Ehh…I’d rather go for redemption. Muntz was…well he was getting old in his age, senile and overly…well he went some-what mad in accomplishing his goals…and it was really the fault of those who accused him of being a liar and stripping him of all the stuff he earned through his life. A lot of people use to admire him, and his desire to correct things turned into something twisted and wicked that he tried to contain but ultimately could not. Heck, he tried to kill Russell 0_0 A KID for crying out loud…he was just so far gone…
Buddy…I feel sorry for too. The personality he created out of hatred for Mr. Incredible, Syndrome, committed acts that would doom him. Whatever end he’d have wouldn’t be easy for him, but murdering so many people for a selfish desire…
Randall well…at least he didn’t kill anybody, especially a kid…Though unlike Muntz and Buddy he had somebody pulling his wires.

It’s alright. Heh heh though I DO seem to recall you saying I was erm…“defensive” myself? Heheh. But yes, don’t worry. As long as you understand things, honestly, then I have no problemo.

#19

Here goes.

  1. Sid. I’d say so. We don’t exactly know what happens to him after the events of Toy Story, other than that he became a garbage man who retains his younger self’s taste in music. Was he scarred for life? Did he grow to respect toys or just fear them? How is his relationship with his sister? Etc. Side wasn’t evil, though. I’d define him more as lost. But it’s not like he was injured or anything. I say fair.

  2. Hopper. Considering his actions, it seems fair. He went out of his way to hurt Flik and other ants, and exploit them for food. He put himself in a situation to get eaten. And, hey, he contributed to the food chain!

  3. Stinky Pete. Wasn’t there some profile that stated that Stinky Pete eventually settled down, content with his new life? Pete wasn’t evil, he just was never used as an actual toy. He may have been uncomfortable initially, but he was able to change. Al wasn’t evil, just greedy. But his actions and personality were terrible. Losing his way to wealth was deserved.

  4. Randall. This one is touchy. I understand the arguments against his punishment, but at the same time, I can see why Mike and Sully did what they did (especially considering them being make-shift guardians to Boo). Randall did, after all, help to banish them and admitted to Sully that he had wanted to kill him for the longest time…before trying to actually kill him… It is possible for him to find his redemption, but he has some serious issues to work through. And at least he wasn’t killed.

  5. None, really. Maybe Darla, but I wouldn’t consider her much of a villain. More like an immature girl whose parents/guardians/adult figures never taught her how to properly handle a fish.

  6. Syndrome. While Mr. Incredible’s actions to Buddy were rather harsh, it doesn’t give him the excuse to kill. Buddy’s state of mind probably decayed to that level and he became a murderous, evil villain. I consider him another character that put himself in a position to be killed. After his failed attempt at destroying-and-saving the city, he could have given up, gone into hiding, turned himself in. But instead he went after Jack-Jack, an innocent baby, and flew off. Deserved.

  7. Chick Hicks. Not evil, but got what he deserved. He won, but the crowd and media disliked his egotistical attitude, preferring Lightning’s genuine heart. Perhaps he simply needs to take a drive and discover himself (much like McQueen).

  8. Skinner. He got what he wanted, but through that process, Linguini, Remy, and Collette changed for the better. So, he more or less won but still failed.

  9. Auto. He was simply running on orders, so the blame can’t be placed entirely on him. He’s less human than any of the other robots by far. I don’t see him being turned off as a punishment, but more like turning off a lamp before one heads outside. It was necessarily to return to Earth, and is more symbolic of going against the previous captain’s orders.

  10. Muntz. Definitely a character that put himself in a position to, well, fall off his air craft and die. Muntz is another mental decay case. He tries to kill an innocent man and child, and capture a mother bird. Muntz kept following Carl and attacking. He shouldn’t be surprised that he fell off at one point.

  11. Lotso. He was cruel and calculating, and his doomed to be stuck to the front of a truck. A fine enough punishment. Maybe it will give him some time to think. And bond with the other little truck guys.

#20

I understand. I just personally prefer self-control to “so and so did this to me, so I’m taking it out on everybody else.”

Actually, I find Muntz to be the most sympathetic of the three. He had everything, and it was taken from him for no fault of his own. I just don’t think that justifies killing people, or, in his case, trying to kill people and stealing animals(personally, I didn’t care that he wanted the bird. I’m still not fully aware of why that particular idea is wrong. But shooting at 8 year olds is wrong.)

#21

A slightly twisted aspect is that sometimes people just throw toys in the trash, so Sid seems to be over his fear…unless he starts freaking out when he finds a cowboy doll peeking out of the trash bag hehehe.

In effect, Hopper was taken by just what he believed was the “natural order” of things, in ways, the food chain. Hence why he got so crossed when his brother mentioned that THEY were suppose to get eaten by birds. And yeah, became part of the plot in the final scenes with the construction and use of the bird.

I don’t recall any profile, bu do hope he became content. Pete’s actions were…well…separate from everybody else considering his goal was simply to be put on and admired forever. It’s quite a conundrum thought. Be forever behind a glass wall, admired but never leaving. Or risk being destroyed/forgotten but essentially loved for a time…possibly forever.

One of the things that make people cross about this issue, at least to me, is that Randall wasn’t a threat near the end, especially to Boo. As for admitting to Sullivan he wanted to kill him…I…sorry I can’t so much agree with that. If you mean when he hit Sullivan with that canister and said “I’ve always wanted to do that”, I think it was mainly Randall just getting the “go ahead” to take out his frustration on Sullivan (he has his reasons but I won’t go into detail).
But if you mean on the conveyor belt, on the door…well…I’m just glad Boo DID step in and “whack the thought” out of his head.
And yeah, Randall has some things to work through, which is why it would be good for a redemption arc, because Sullivan and Wazowski would (should) have some issues to work out themselves.
And thank you for realizing that yes, he wasn’t killed.

Hahah, good one. Innocence hehehe.

Only saving grace I see is that he didn’t kill Jack-Jack but yeah…Syndrome should have cut his losses…I mean…Buddy should have cut his losses…but instead revenge purely against the Incredibles was making him far too gone.

Yeah, Chick really needs to get his priorities straight. I mean cheating in something is wrong…but he could have possibly KILLED King in that race. Sure, probably wasn’t his intention…but still yeah he just needs to get himself worked out.

You mean with closing down Guesteu’s? Yeah actually yeah that was his goal later on. Huh…you know I wonder whatever happened to him. Thinking in this way, it’s actually quite interesting that he did “win”.

Good way of putting it. Maybe if somebody took out that A113 order in Auto he’d be able to function again normally, without the HAL-like approach.

Mental decay, yes. I mean afterall he didn’t even have an anchor for his blimp (anybody see Rocketeer?), you’d think an experienced adventurer would know that precaution.

Yes, some time to think would be good…but…I’m unsure if this was the right way to go. Afterall this doesn’t really solve Lotso’s demeanor…afterall it’s not like this truck driver is showing any form of love and affection…then again that’s what got Lotso in this position in the first place. Oui, head hurt.

Not a lot of people can control themselves sometimes, especially in positions for these guys. Buddy had his idol, at least in his mind, turned upside down. Muntz lost what he gained and strived to get it back, turning it into his only endeavor. Randall…well…working as hard as he did on his job along with nights on the extractor, trying to keep things under-wraps so nothing bad happens…an accumulation of things sort of made it harder for him to control.

shakes head No it doesn’t justify things. I mean Muntz IS old. I mean look at uhh…Carl…he is like…what? Pushing 80/50? And Muntz was like in his 20s or 30s in the opening we saw. The guy is incredibly old. So MAYBE some mental disease or something hit him…but generally I think it was the gnawing belief that “If somebody tries to take this bird from me…I won’t let them…it’s the only way to fix things”.
When he started showing those “helmets” of previous “visitors”…it was obvious something was wrong. It’s unknown if he actually killed these people…but it is likely I suppose.
Then again, as said, his dog’s…planes…were equipped with, as noted in the shots, tranq darts. So I’m unsure if Muntz had anything lethal. The sword, yes, but that was display. I haven’t watched the film in awhile, but…I think yes there was a shotgun or a hunting rifle that had real bullets. Yes…I suppose if he had that those people might have been killed (ala the “greatest hunt”)

What separates, at least in some way to me, Randall from Muntz and Syndrome is that he didn’t aim to kill anybody. Randall stated himself that he was going to have Sullivan work for him once the Extractor went through, so he didn’t aim to hurt anybody. Muntz and Syndrome, as we find out, have already killed before.

#22

That’s a pretty long one! Good work :slight_smile:
Of all the Pixar villains, I thought that Randall was the one that deserved his ‘punishment’ least. As I stated on the first post, he had to get throttled by Boo (and then by Sully) then banished to (Florida? gators…) and then banged on the head again by a short-tempered lady. I can’t believe it! Is it too much to ask to drag the guy back to the CDA? Where both he and that blue lobster dude could rot in Monster prison and we could say no more about it? Oh please…

#23

It’s been guessed that it’s Louisiana, though Florida’s another option.
taps lip It’s a…difficult issue, probably more so with Randall himself. He can fight yeah, but he’s also a minority…and Waternoose would have no quarrels with pinning EVERYTHING on him, and given his position and lawyers, it would be easy.
Though on the flip side, Randall would be the prime candidate for evidence against Waternoose (perhaps he had the plans of the Extractor with Waternoose’s signature or something on them, so that when it was accepted by the public the crab would get the credit).
But now that he’s in the Human World, prison was evaded. There would be even more complications if he went back, because the ones he was exiled by SHOULD be in prison themselves. Afterall Sullivan and Wazowski committed a crime by doing that (technically, it was Waternoose who had the door and banished THEM, Randall just opened the door. Interestingly enough it’s the EXACT same with Sullivan and Wazowski…huh…I actually…hadn’t seen that until I thought about it now…Randall and Wazowski were in the same “position” while Waternoose and Sullivan were in terms of that. The later as the actual committers with the former as accomplices), though the C.D.A. covered it up for them.

rubs temple Given monster society is similar to ours, there’s a lot of technical issues. It’s not as simple as “they deserved it, they didn’t”.

#24

I too though Louisiana but I suppose it’s an unimportant miniscule detail.

#25

Ironically Cars, the one Pixar movie with no villain, is one of the least-liked Pixar movies by hardcore fans.

America loves villains.

#26

Wouldn’t really call it minuscule…though research (if I recall) tends to favor Louisiana.

As for Cars…like many I felt the plot was way too similar to “Doc Hollywood”, but then again I suppose that film is the generalization of “guy is jerk, gets stuck in out-of-place town, slowly turns around” premise. So while the concept of Cars was unique the story…really wasn’t up to snuff with the rest. Not to say Cars wasn’t a good film, I’m just saying it wasn’t as imaginative plot-wise as the others.

What a fabulous statement for America 8D Loving someone to hate :sunglasses:

#27

I don’t think that’s the case. The movie did have an antagonist in Chick Hicks. But a villain or a lack there of doesn’t really decide whether a movie is sucessful or not.

#28

Well said Star clapping icon not found
A good story doesn’t necessarily NEED a villain to be great.

#29

Finding Nemo doesn’t have an antagonist, either. But, personally, I don’t believe chick is a villain. He’s just a pest, like Ego or Darla. I can’t see how he’s a villain.

#30

Chick doesn’t fit the role of antagonist. I’m not sure there’s any criteria to be one, but if there is, Chick doesn’t fit it. He just doesn’t feel like a villain. He barely gets any screentime and he’s no more evil than your typical high schooler.

#31

There were actually two conflicts in Cars. A man v. self conflict (Lightning’s adventure in finding that life is more than just winning) and a man v. man conflict (only one can win the Piston cup, and Chick’s character made the audience want to cheer for Lightning). The former of the two conflicts dominated most of the story.

#32

I agree entirely. He’s just a pest, like Ego or Darla. He doesn’t really threaten Lightning’s physical or emotional safety any more than the King, Jr, or any other racer. He is not a villain.

#33

Chicks is a villain because he says mean things to Lightning is the argument I usually see.

Mr. Potato Head says mean things to Woody. He’s not a villain.

#34

I agree. And what about Sally? Sally and Atta and Collette and EVE aren’t nice to the male protagonists in their respective movies at all for the first half or more. Are they villains? Obviously not.

#35

Here’s the definition of ‘antagonist’

  1. A person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.
  2. A substance that interferes with or inhibits the physiological action of another

Chick fits both of those definitions.

He’s not a VILLIAN, but he is an antagonist.

#36

Well, fine then. So is the King, JR, and the rest of the race cars in the entire Piston Cup racing circuit. Because they are all “adversaries” for Lightning. :unamused: