Oh yes, I do love Mike Yagoobian in moderate amounts 
I still think Randall and Syndrome, and all of them really deserved it.
To be honest, I don’t think there’s any confirmation in the film itself that Randall actually did die. The argument that he did seems to be based more upon assumption than anything else.
Thinking about it, how many Pixar villains actually have died? It seems to me that they don’t go about killing off their antagonists left and right. There are three main bad guys that I can think of (Hopper, Syndrome and Muntz), and one sidekick (Gopher, assuming that they never attempted to repair him). Auto’s a bit more problematic - he’s dormant, but does that actually qualify him as “dead”? Keep in mind that I still haven’t seen Toy Story 3, so I don’t know what becomes of the bad guys there.
While I admit that many topics do get…erm…“drawn in” to conversations about Randall…they do NOT all reflect on how “innocent” he was. In fact, we have said that he’s no saint and that he HAS done mistakes, JUST like everybody else. We’re not denying that for him…or anybody for that matter.
As for the “suppose to die” bit…I find that rather disturbing. Does being a hero qualify basically anybody to kill the opposition? Does doing untasteful acts result in death no matter the circumstances? shakes head no. I can’t say I agree with that.
I’m a bit surprised you picked up on him not being dead Mogwai. Of course the bar moves a little more to the not section, otherwise Sullivan and Wazowski would be murders clear and simple, and nobody wants that, as well as me.
As for those that did “die”. Hopper is uhh…suggested to the “scar-like death” as we see the events leading up to a possible death, but never really see it. There IS a possibility he’s alive, but highly unlikely.
Syndrome? He has a higher probability. Does anybody remember his Zero-Point energy? His gauntlets still worked. He could have easily stopped the turbine. Of course that’s NOT to say he doesn’t get out of it with a fair amount of scorching, and perhaps something from the fall if one rocket boot didn’t support him.
Muntz? Well…maybe not. He DID have balloons tired to his feet and the Spirt of Adventure WAS over water at the time. And lets all remember, Muntz is an experienced explorer.
As for Auto…he’s off at the moment, and was simply like a soldier, following orders. In this case under…oui was his name…Sydny? No…well the CEO of B&L. He was issued that order and as a machine, had no say in the matter. Who knows, maybe once the captain figures out how to, he’d remove that directive and Auto can go back to being normal and helpful.
Gosh, I’m so glad that Chris Sanders didn’t hold that narrow and cliche’d viewpoint when he set out to make Lilo and Stitch, otherwise it would have been just another worn-out, lame epic failure and I wouldn’t have bothered wasting my money on it when I can watch basically the same formula for free on Saturday morning cartoons.
Randall was NOT “the villain”. Waternoose WAS. Waternoose planned the whole thing and Randall was working under HIS orders. Waternoose gets to go to prison, and Randall possibly gets killed and eaten. Something is very wrong with that picture. IF Randall did die, then that means that Mike and Sulley committed premeditated murder. WHY should two murderers be rewarded? Why should Fungus, who was also guilty of crimes, be rewarded? It’s screwed up. That’s what makes that whole thing disturbing.
pitbulllady
rubs temple, blows breath Oui…here we go…
From what I understand, it was Randall’s idea, and Waternoose was just…the executive-guy it was being pitched to.
I agree. "If it wasn’t for YOU, " something about Sulley. My memory is fuzzy; I haven’t slept in 3 days.
I’ll try to round this out so this doesn’t get pulled in…
Waternoose was a CEO, Randall’s boss. So he controlled allot of what he does, especially when it came to this idea. But down to it, it was Waternoose’s idea, he even says he shouldn’t have trusted Randall with it in the film.
And given the differrances between how the two respond to a human being involved, Waternoose seems less phased than Randall. What I mean is that Randall didn’t intend to hurt anybody (yes, there’s evidence of that, but I won’t go into it here or we’ll be dragged). Waternoose on the other hand “would kidnap 1,000”.
"I agree. “If it wasn’t for YOU, " something about Sulley. My memory is fuzzy; I haven’t slept in 3 days.”
That was Waternoose stabbing Randall with words because he “messed up”, though generally this actually wasn’t his fault. Sullivan was actually the one who opened the door and let Boo out, Randall merely thought she was somewhere else at the time (albiet confused by that). But when heck breaks loose, guess who Waternoose wants to take the blame out on? The subordinate.
rubs temple As defensive as it sounds it’s true that Randall TRIED to fix the mess. He took all night looking for Boo to stop a growing panic, and tried to get her back and end the thing (as well as get Sullivan and Wazowski out of the mess).
shrugs Waternoose will blame anybody he thinks is in fault.
EDIT- Please don’t double post within 24 hours, thanks!
-lizardgirl
Something tells me we need a thread dedicated entirely to that debate…
Now, I’ve gotten to thinking about mine, and I realized that there are still some scenes that should be in my list instead of others.
I stand pretty firm with the top two, leaving the bottom three to be changed.
- Hopper realizing that the Queen is gone, in turn trying to threaten Manny into telling him where she is. Even BEFORE Manny was my favorite character, it still bothered me. It only extended when I noticed that Gypsy was trying to pull Hopper away from him, probably knowing that she was not going to save Manny no matter how much she tried. It did, however, bring a great amount of insight into her personality, and from that scene, I realized how brave she is. I guess I should come up with/find another topic to express my reasons for that…
- THREE Thumper scenes; Hopper threatening Dot with him, Thumper chasing Dot, and Thumper attacking Flik (with everyone else looking on)
- Kevin being captured just as she was about to get back to her babies. That was one of the few times I wanted to shout “NO!!!” in the theater. I still feel really upset watching that particular scene. Poor Kevin!
Uuugh, Thumper 
I agree, Flik getting beaten always bothers me to some degree.
It is a bit of the relief that he hits Hopper back not seconds later…in a way…
I used to find the first Thumper scene fairly scary…
True, in the film itself Muntz’s death isn’t actually confirmed, just heavily implied (isn’t hitting water after falling from that height at that speed like hitting a solid surface?). There is a featurette on the DVD, however - called, I think, “The Many Endings of Charles Muntz” - which pretty much confirms that he’s dead. It clarifies that that was their intention, anyway, so until he reappears in a sequel, I think we can close the book on it.
As for Randall, even if he was just working under Waternoose’s orders (which again, seems to be based more upon assumption than any actual confirmation from the film itself), he’s still guilty of some pretty heinous acts (kidnapping and attempted murder among them), and still, effectively, a villain. It just bothers me that every single Monsters, Inc discussion always has to go back to this same debate (and not just on this forum, though I’ve noticed that it does seem to be the same names who keep popping up), which always seems to get peoples’ hackles up and never accomplishes anything. I like a bit of lively debate as much as the next person, but this…just sucks all the fun and enjoyment out of what is, at the end of the day, a really great movie (and just a movie, at that).
Are there any Monsters, Inc. fans who actually like Sulley and Mike?!?!?! Sulley is my favorite character, and I don’t see why all the people who claim to ENJOY this movie hate the two main protagonists.
Let’s not let the whole Sulley/Mike/Randall thing get out of hand on this thread, guys. It’d be a shame to spoil such an interesting conversation. If anyone wants to discuss these matters, then the Monsters, Inc. section is the place to go.
I hadn’t even thought about Hopper beating up Flik, but now I think about it, it’s a pretty strong scene. Thumper’s pretty freaky, too.
Fine by me. 
On the subject of Thumper, what was the deal with him? Was he like that from birth, or do you think something happened to make him so deranged? Either way, I find it a little dark to think that the grasshoppers treat the mentally ill members of their society as their attack dogs.
I kinda wondered about Thumper myself. Maybe he does have some kind of “defect” that makes him behave that way, but maybe he isn’t FORCED to be an attack dog. The second two times he tried to pick on Dot was completely on his own, especially the second time when both of them were alone.
Maybe not forced, but he was certainly encouraged.
Personally I’m in the same boat there hehehe, whether hitting water from such a height. But still, I think due to his experience as an adventurer, he might have some luck. I mean if so many of those balloons could lift a house…a few could lift a person.
Actually we DID see this kinda with Russel. He’s…smaller than Muntz but rather chubby and he was able to lift himself off the ground. Granted, Muntz was blown outward and down by the currents going around the Spirit of Adventure, but still the same properties apply to him.
rubs temple I agree with LG that this matter should be handled another time, but I feel to round it out…
There actually was confirmation in the film. Several bits in fact.
As for Randall’s crimes…kidnapping well he really didn’t kidnap Boo. Intention TO do so, yes. But the laws in relation to humans in their world is…well…confusing. It’s uncertain how it is. Attempted murder? Yes. Surprised? Well no, tried to strangle Sullivan. Randall DID, however, NOT intend to hurt anybody (a dead man can’t work for you can he?). But still, yes he did attempt it, even if he was under orders.
rubs temple It can become a rather serious discussion Mogwai. Mainly heated because some people either don’t want to understand the “unfavored parties”. It’s just an issue that’ll always be around it seems until a good resolution.
This is one thing I mean. Personally, I don’t hate Sullivan and Wazowski. I won’t lie and say I never have. I had at first for what they done. Now? Heh…not so much. Still. What they did was wrong. BUT. I have never said in my recent mind that Sullivan is a bad person. No. He doesn’t go around aiming for trouble or causing panics. It just seems to happen. If Sullivan ISN’T feeling guilt on his part I will be so surprised. So no. I do not hate Sullivan, I even defend him. Strange? A “Randall fan” defending Sullivan? Not so much. I’m a fair person.
As for Wazowski…yeah, hate’em. laughs No no. I won’t say I “like” him, but don’t “hate” him with a passion.
Anyways just wanted to clear that up. Just ummm…take it in if you want and we’ll save it for another time.
In the Outtakes, you see Thumper acting… ‘normal’ lol