The Monster World: Let's be social!

Basically the social end of how people believe the Monster World may function, a thread to discuss various conclusions we believe which can be drawn. Granted, this is a lot more fluid than the science thread.

Let’s not get too heated, okay folks? Rather like the science thread I want us to put aside our own personal emotions on the issues talked about (to a certain degree) and ultimately try and find out what makes the most sense from what we KNOW. Once again a potential source area for fanfiction/just for interests sake. This is also because sometimes threads can sometimes go off-topic here, (it’s the natural flow of discussion sometimes, but sometimes it does). So part of me wanted a thread for us to specifically have for this very wide area- so if it does happen, we take it here instead.

Basically: politics, legal issues and the CDA, potential religious beliefs, social status, how the company functions, the fact I am on the fence about the idea of racism and whatever existing in the monster world etc. etc. You get the picture.

VERY similar suggestions however also exist in this thread along with the scientific one (copy and pasted some of it actually):

-If you are citing an idea- please give HOW you came to this conclusion with EVIDENCE. For instance, you may have come to the idea due to a few scenes in the movie- state the lines and/or actions therfore along with you idea and/or show your thought process. This is ESPECIALLY important if you are using material not within the movie. State PRECISELY which material you used if so, with quotes. It is not fair if you just throw out an idea without an explanation. We don’t all have access to the same material after all in many cases. I myself only in fact have access to the bonus 2 DVD, so as you can probably imagine, this is kind of personally just so I don’t become/look like an idiot in this discussion.

-Please also state, whether the source is canon or extended canon, to avoid confusion where potential contradictions arise (which sometimes happen). Full canon will always be worth more than extended canon, however extended canon can offer interesting insights so it is not worthless, it’s simply the rule of canon however than full canon overrides it and always will. In the case where two extended canon areas conflict, we can discuss which of them makes more sense. As far as I can tell canon is the movie, the extras of the DVD, and the books surrounding Monsters Inc handbooks both Pre and Post laughter energy conversion. EXTENDED canon are the comics, video games, manga etc. Please keep this in mind when arguing a point.

I’ve already discussed elsewhere I kind of find the CDA kind of ‘creepy’ for lack of a technical term due to their lack of honesty.

This thread we can discuss the fact the monsters DO have a legal system of some kind (with the existence of trials),

“Oh hey Marge, Hey! How was Jury duty?”
-Mike: In the movie: [canon]

not to mention the fact that banishment is a greatly feared punishment since Mike can list them off as household names.

“I’ve got a list of names for you, Loch Ness, Big Foot, the abominable snow man, they’ve all got one thing in common pal, banishment! We could be next!”
Mike: In the movie [canon]

Of course, it it NOT probably EXACTLY like that of the USA, but it IS a fact that trials exist (and it is hence why exiling Randall and it being legally acceptable is a huge plot hole that has yet to be filled given the fact so few monsters are usually banished which would be unlikely it it was legal. But it is possibly the greatest set up for a sequel ever as a result. But you’ve probably already heard all this- but we’re not getting too personal here so let’s not get too detracted by this area, this is about social subjects GENERALLY too remember than just one= but of course it should be discussed in some capacity). Plus socially speaking, monsters do act very western… or at least they do in Monstropolis. Except their streets are very clean.

It’s my personal understanding however that banishment comes as a result however of endangering the public on a mass scale rather than regular crimes, or even the one-off murder/attempted murder etc, hence why Mike is fearing it from Boo being let in and keeping her under wraps.

(Granted I am aware there is a topic about this, which drives further questions as to whether the Abominable Snowman was wrongfully accussed or whether he changed over time, not to mention how harsh a crime has to be is certainly debateable)

Other things include the fact that as pitbulllady once pointed out to me, Mike praying for the door to be there means that they must believe in some form of deity.

“Please be there, please be there…”
Mike: In the movie [canon]

This is also a thread in which to engage in discussion of certain ‘contradictions’ and how they may be explained, like the fact that Roz has a magazine for gaining weight when we first meet her and yet Mike makes fun of Sulley’s weight and Sulley comments on Mike’s lack of exercise/his butterball…(ness):

[i]“Wa wa wa wa, give it a rest will you butterball? You could use the exercise.”

“I could use the exercise? Look at you, you’ve got your own climate!”[/i]
Sulley and Mike: The movie [canon]

Could this be simply cultural differences into what they prefer? Judging by the diversity of Monstropolis, is the city a big melting pot of diversity rather like many western cities here perhaps?

The fact there are dome shaped buildings in the background just before we see Mike and Sulley leave for work suggest that Monstropolis is a POLITICALLY important city as well (and has a very large scream factory to boot.)

Also yes, this thread is to potentially touch on the idea of racism existing (if it does), is Randall’s status a factor? Or is it simply rather like the idea of having red hair versus blonde rather than the equivilant black vs white we have here? Is Mike just being a bit of an ass in general (not to start a bashing discussion or anything, just please don’t, remember?) or is it something more than that? Is Mike also a minority given is reaction to Sulley’s criticism in the same trailer I posted in the science thread?:

youtube.com/watch?v=cvOQeozL4S0

(Or once again is it just a physical difference people would poke fun at someon.for like his height with Randall in the locker room?)

“It scares little kids, and little monsters.”
-Randall In the movie: [canon]

However is Mike’s ‘Lizard Boy’ comment:

“I hope that hurt Lizard boy!”
-Mike: In the movie [canon]

The equivilant of ‘Monkey boy’ in america. Is Mike’s fake radio broadcast telling us something more? Or not? (Here in Britain I hear ‘monkey’ used a general insult than anything racial, but since Pixar is pretty american…w ell I can see why people would draw this conclusion).

Also to discuss the company and how it functions- we see Waternoose the CEO, we also hear of the board- suggesting shareholders like we have in such companied with ‘Inc’ in their name.

Sulley got to be CEO rather quickly for someone without any experience. Is he being used for publicity perhaps? The fact he discovered laugh energy as being a good story? Did the CDA have any say in the matter? We know they have a big say in how a private company is run but how much? We do know Waternoose fears them and that an outsider knows the phone number for them rather like 999/911 when Boo shows up:

“There’s a kid here! A human kid!”
-Sushi… slicer: In the movie [canon]

How much pwer to the CDA have? It seems like a lot.

Plus Human status- as time goes on will monsters see humans as people rather than animals? What are the potential dangers if we functioned with monsters on an equal politcal level for both sides? War? Cold war? What of the energy issues?

You get the idea.

Have fun. I’m a bit more nervous about this thread, but it has potential to be fun in its own way. Let’s just remember not to get too personal however and remember this thread is less ‘solid’ as a topic compared to the scientific topic. And remember some of us approach the topic with no prior knowledge and with different levels of experience and access to certain material outside the movie. AND CITE YOUR SOURCES.

Have fun!

Just a few random thoughts:

Perhaps the ad in the newspaper that Roz was reading was aimed at FEMALE monsters, since here in the US, most of the readers of those supermarket tabloid rags are women, so perhaps it’s considered attractive for the women to be “full-figured” and have some meat on their bones, as we say, while it’s not considered to be that sexy for a guy to be “heavy-set”. In the past in OUR world, we’ve gone through time periods in which skinny women would have been regarded as sickly and poor candidates for wives/mothers, and plump was definitely “in”-just look at the classic paintings by artists like Rubens, for example. None of those “stick figures” that would have irked Edna Mode there!

In the movie, we actually see at least one other monster with only one eye by default besides Mike, and that, of course, is Celia Mae. We see MANY monsters with Mike’s basic body plan-two legs, two arms, body/head all part of the same oblong-shaped structure, odd numbers of eyes(one, three), including Fungus and many unnamed background monsters, both inside the factory and outside on the street. All of them seem to be small in stature.

The city of Monstropolis itself looks remarkably like Washington, DC, or Philadelphia. I strongly got the impression that this was an old, well-established city somewhere along the east coast of the Monster World’s United States, which either did at one time, or still does, function as an important seat of government and probably has a lot of historical/cultural value as well. In the “Monsters, Inc. Employee Handbook”, there are mentions of dining choices, and there’s mention of businesses and restaurants along the river front near the docks, which means that this city isn’t far from the ocean, to have a large navigable river, like the Potomac in DC or the Hudson in NYC. That also indicates that like us, this Monster World depends greatly on international trade and shipping. The various accents heard around the city indicate that there are also distinct countries in the Monster World, each with their own unique cultures and dialects, and that even within their version of the United States, there are regional dialects and accents. Mike and Roz sound more like what I’d expect in a city like this, while both Sulley and Randall come across as individuals from different parts of the country who wound up in Monstropolis, with Sulley probably having been there the longest. Both have a distinct Midwestern “flavor” to their speech/dialect, with Sulley having a bit more of a "drawl’ than Randall, who probably could not pronounce the word “WASH” without sticking an “R” in there if his life depended on it, and who might go for a cold bottle of “pop” if he couldn’t get any coffee!

Now, the CDA-they scare me, quite frankly, and not because they’re monsters, either. As I’ve gotten older and seen and experienced more, I’ve gotten less and less trusting of government. I hate to come off sounding like one of these paranoid anarchist conspiracy theorists, but honestly, what I’ve personally seen as of late from our elected and appointed officials gives me no reason to believe that they have my best interests in mind, that’s for sure. The CDA reminds me too much of certain American government bureaucracies that have become extremely powerful as of late. They are all about having as much control over every aspect of the citizens’ lives as possible. Like our own groups, such as the USDA, the Us Fish and Wildlife, and the Dept. of Homeland Security, they might have been created to protect citizens from certain perceived or real threats, but once they got that power and realized that they weren’t really accountable to the people, it was anything goes. I do not see the CDA, or Roz, as simply benevolent protectors so much as a bunch of corrupt government thugs. I will include them in that list of what “Dirty Jobs” front man Mike Rowe calls “Groups with Angry Achronyms”, along with the aforementioned USDA, HSUS and the ALF. Sulley’s position is most likely a direct result of the CDA’s power, of government control over what is supposed to be a stockholder-owned corporation. They know that Sulley broke a serious law, more than one, actually, in both failing to report a human child and harboring said human child, as well as his participation in what in OUR country(Human-World version)would be classified as a lynching of another monster, and of course, Sulley KNOWS that THEY know, so it would make sense that there would be that “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” deal. In other words, “you do something for me and don’t snitch, and I will do your bidding and won’t snitch on YOU either”. The CDA has their man(Sulley, a “puppet” CEO) now in charge of one of the largest, if not THE largest, utilities companies in the nation, which means essentially that the company is now government-controlled, behind the scenes, in spite of the name. Again, I draw on personal experience here.

Now, the 911 call from Harryhausen’s-here in the US, when you have an emergency, be it a house on fire, or someone breaking in your door, or you’ve started having severe chest pains and feel dizzy, you call the same number for all of them, and the dispatcher who takes your call directs it to the appropriate emergency responders, whether that would be the fire dept., the police, the rescue squad, animal control, or whatever. This is probably the same in Monstropolis as well, so that chef most likely did NOT know the direct number to the CDA, but his call was put through to them as soon as he stated the reason for his emergency, since they were the group assigned to spefically deal with human children getting into the Monster World.

Ah, yes, then there’s those mutual insults slung by both Randall and Mike, with Randall making a reference to Mike’s lack of physical stature(and maybe hinting at OTHER…things…being “little” as well, a guy-to-guy insult), which is rather odd considering that Randall himself is no behemoth and still weighs within normal range for an adult human male, far short of the bulk of many other monsters we see in the movie, sort of the pot calling the kettle black there. But Mike’s referring to Randall as “Lizard Boy” does take things to a whole different level, and is one of the reasons why I believe that some form of racism DOES exist there. Short monsters do not seem to be limited to one speficic type, since we see short monsters who clearly are very different in type from Mike, even being limited to sort of crawling along the floor, so I can’t say that Randall’s insult was directed at any particular type/species/race of monster. Mike, however, does imply two things: one, that scaly, reptilian-type monsters, not just Randall, aren’t “people” as such, but are lower animals, lizards. Two, that Randall is not worthy of being thought of as an adult, hence the term “BOY”. Now, to give Mike some positive credit there, he’s probably in his '40’s, and he’s reached the age where he tends to think of MOST 20-somethings and younger as still being kids, because they seem young to him. I’m guilty of the same thing myself from time to time; I’ll catch myself referring to someone as “that boy” or “this girl” when that person in actually in their 20’s, but compared to ME, they seem very young, and I’m not using those terms in a negative way. HOWEVER, the key here is that I don’t call them that to their faces, which Mike DID. I grew up during the height of the American Civil Rights era, in the Deep South. I can remember when White people would actually call a Black man “boy” or “Monkey Boy” as a term of deep disrespect, because they grew up being taught that Black people were not fully human and were incapable of thinking like or acting as adults were supposed to act, therefore they did not deserve to be acknowledged as adults. Again, I am old enough to draw upon personal experience and observation here. When Mike uses the term, “Lizard Boy” when speaking directly to Randall, he’s implying that Randall is of an inferior race, he’s more like an animal, and that any monster who is like him is also inferior, not just Randall himself.

pitbulllady

All these thoughts and questions about a simple movie can bring up alot of debating and wondering and I think that its great that we can talk about movies like this. I think that alot of the things in Monster Inc. are simply aimed towards making fun of the human’s species flaws. Like pitbulllady said, that female monsters were the targets for the tabloid like papers in the movie. In my opinion Pixar is making fun of the ridiculous tabloid titles and stories that fill the magazine racks in our local shopping centers today. Even though many people do not believe in reading those, a huge amoung of womes ages 15 and up are crazy about reading the magazines daily.
On the topic of the monsters bodily arrangements I think that the diversity of body parts in Monsters Inc. is another way of showing the diversity of humans today. Racial differences, and even style and clothing differences wit humans is resembled through the body parts and arrangements of the monsters in this movie.
I also think that the Monster world in this movie is practically and virtually identical to our world today…just with Monsters and there needs substituting ours.
The CDA was a great tool that Pixar used to explain the government issues that the Monster world had. It would be like the CIA or the FBI here in America. The CDA’s laws and morals also resemble that of some of the organazations like the CDA in America. The tight security, the crazy employees, and the identical suits.
“We have a 2319! 2319!!!” and all the CDA employees come rushing in from all around attempting to save the monster from the awful effects that can come from the innocent human child’s sock. The CDA is also a protective organazation. THey want to insure that all the monsters are safe from any thing from teh human world that can be of harm to monsters or there world.
And again, I think that the insults that Mike and Randall throw at each other repetatively is just another aspect of any other movie that has been create. Show me one movie that does not have any smack talking or insults thrown at a person that is not on there side of the plot. Or in that case an interesting movie.

Hey there new person! Welcome to the discussion vbgatorgirl.

Yes insults happen in movies a lot.Mike and Randall’s issues could be taken in many directions however, and I can see why people might draw racial issues from it due to certain aspects. Once again, this was probably not the writers original intent, BUT we also have to remember the only thing which really counts is what we see in the movie. The writer’s intent only goes so far. Interviews etc. telling us his/her views are great, but they are not awarded the same status. I dislike the premise of ‘Word of God’ myself in TV tropes, because I’ve hung out with many English students (and some have done the same thing with films), and they have always told me that if you try to put forward an interpretation and say it MUST be right because the writer says so- they’re not going to get far. It has to make sense. Author’s/writer’s opinions also change and they contradict themselves in any case if they go too far. Like for instance I heartily will concur with somone that the original intent wasn’t that exile should be seen as illegal… but it doesn’t make much sense at all if it was legal for any monster to exile another given the evidence we see as already mentioned. Hence it can’t be. So it isn’t. The whole ‘race’ thing is more grey though and more subject to interpretation, but I can see both sides to the argument more so.

I agree that the CDA possibly have protective aspects however (just not in the way we may be at first led to believe. ie. toxicity). Though I think there is also power involved.

The CDA do give the impression of knowing full well that humans are not toxic at all in the end- since Sulley and Mike do not get the ‘treatment’ after exposure to Boo. If they were so sure of her danger, they would have done it. Either the CDA decided to put two citizen’s uh ‘safety’ before keeping things quiet or they generally knew they weren’t (social stigmas meaning they still wanted to be out of Boo’s way all the same, ingrained as it were almost). The last option makes more sense to me. Plus, it’s interesting. Not to say of course, there isn’t a genuine protective benefit in seperating the two worlds. Are the CDA vying/wanting for power or are they merely tools for power mixed in with some ‘greater good’ mentality to boot in both options? Big problem with only caring for the bigger picture is of course that sometimes people get sacrificed in the process… and they don’t seem to be too cut up about that sort of idea. Not happy perhaps, just uncaring about it.

Slightly dipping into science at first: Generally, Boo just has to be older, (at least) one year has passed by. She should be talking by now- which could result interesting possible consequences. The fact Boo remains the EXACT same age in the Boom!Comics renders these comics as not only extended canon but AU extended canon- since of course the Narnia concept renders the entire thing completely illogical and fails to work in context. Same with ANY sequel. They do this and they’ve officially rendered it unable to fit with the original movie. No exceptions. Of course, will they speak the same language? I’m curious to that too. In fanfiction I always write monsters speaking English for simplicity purposes, but would they speak different languages in reality? (Perhaps Boo could become bilingual from such exposure if so? After all, expose kids to languages younger, easier than if you’re older- plus Boo seems bright). How would it be possible for them to speak English if so?

Plus there is the whole CDA issue again in the whole Boo-Sulley thing. They would not be happy with Mike building the door/Sulley visiting her again due to Monster World security perhaps.

I’ve seen people put forward the idea that it was for HUMAN safety instead- why toxicity was kept up. I disagree with that idea. The CDAs primary concern would be their own world- and humans only come into it if they thought stealing them would cause exposure of the monster world the humans and war. Concern to humans would be always completely secondary if it existed at ALL (I think any concerns as mentioned would be indirect. What’s a dead human? Especially when people disappear all the time anyway without the monster world’s help?)

Plus the idea of the knowledge human sentience (knowledge of which is absent for most of the movie it seems, they think humans are lesser animals like a dog or something judging by how they treat/refer to Boo)- this being made known also raises issues- if all monsters found out, what would that mean? Would they find the whole idea of getting energy more uncomfortable? Would they become MORE scared of humans in a different way? (The way the CDA may be really trying to protect them from?) Or would (without toxicity as a discouragement), increased curiosity eventually accumulate in exposure? I mean come on, it’s a whole other world- Imagine if you’d been told a whole world was … oh radioactive or something (unscientific example, but pretend for the sake of argument). Only brave select people can go there! To get energy! What brave heroes!

Then you find out it wasn’t radioactive at all. No such danger like that really exists. Would you not be the slightest bit curious? Heck, the curiosity was probably already there, but now what was believed to be the most dangerous aspect and largest deterrant of the world was a lie/wrong. Come on… wouldn’t you be curious? Wouldn’t you want to see it for yourself? See the truth? Everything everyone ever said about the ‘other world’ is now suspect- you want to know the truth. Just a little peek of that world outside of a human child’s room too?

Just a little one…

Plus, who would win in a war if it came to that anyway? Monsters or humans? I guess it depends on when the first strike happens- if they chose to Monsters have the advantage of surprise. They also have more advanced energy sources and portals etc. Similar technology more or less elsewhere. However… humans more or less could control their energy supply too.

Personally I could see more of a cold war issue developing if things went sour after they tried the more diplomatic ways, for a little while anyway. Some festering before any big boom if it transpired.

It’s hard to say who would win a hypothetical war between the Human World and the Monster World, should it occur. We know what technology and what WMD’s WE have, but the only glimpse we get of Monster World weaponry is formidable indeed, and that was that “energy dome”(zero point energy? Wonder who sold them THAT?) that the CDA put over Harryhausen’s. Something like that, over an entire city…that’s downright scary. Given their parallels with us, it’s likely that their world has had its share of international conflicts, and has developed some nasty weaponry. Plus, they have learned to manipulate portals between universes, something we have yet to master, and it’s certainly not for lack of trying. Too bad for us that ole’ Al Einstein had to croak, since this was one of his pet projects, and given a bit more time, he’d probably have figured it out. Plus, we really don’t know the real potential for human screams and laughter as a WEAPON, either.
What can be said, with almost 100% certainty, is that the widespread realization among monsters that humans are sapient beings will be almost as great as culture shock to them as the discovery of their world would be to us. Both humans and monsters have deeply-rooted, long-standing beliefs that they, and they alone, are the only really intelligent life forms, and the discovery that this is wrong will really shake things up.

pitbulllady