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Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

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Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Gopher » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:24 am

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time Pixar fan. I grew up with their first movies and fell in love with their "renaissance" era or Ratatouille, WALL-E and Up. I'm posting because I wanted to express my opinions about Cars 2 (I would give it a B) and its role in Pixar's upcoming movies.

I'll address Monsters University, a movie I'm not exactly looking forward to. MU, for all intensive purposes, is like a Cars 2. In that I'm sure it will be an entertaining movie, yet Pixar should be doing better things than either project.

I thought Cars wrapped itself up pretty well, so there was only so much of a path as to where the characters could go from there. In Cars 2, they took them around the world and did a spy, James Bond like storyline. And I'm not saying that storyline wasn't fun- it was- but it was rather irrelevant to anything the first movie tried to accomplish. It works as an amusing counterpart to the first movie, and not as a continuation of the development of the characters. The 'be yourself' message is thrown on in the midst of bombs and airplanes (and when you think about it, sort of a bad idea to be throwing at audiences), and though you'll leave entertained, you'll realize that the movie never really builds on the world of the first movie, despite all of the new countries and new models. I understand that Cars is John Lasseter's baby more than anything else since the beginnings of Pixar itself, so the continuation of Cars was probably something he just wanted to do.

Which is why Monsters University serves even less of a point as a follow up movie. They're treading backwards for a prequel that shows Mike and Sully going through college and learning how to become the scaring smash team they would be at the beginning of Monsters Inc. But... why? It won't reveal anything about the characters we didn't know in the first place. It can't continue their journey, after an ending that screams to be continued yet also shouldn't be touched. It's not going to feature a premise as suspenseful as the first kid to run amuck in Monstropolis, which had the role of a child's fear of monsters reversed. So what is the point of a Monsters Inc prequel, besides big money? Does Pixar really want to make a 'college comedy' movie, like they wanted to make their 'spy' movie with the Cars franchise? Certainly Monsters isn't as dear to Lasseter as Cars, so who at Pixar really wants to make this movie?

I wouldn't have doubted MU if Cars 2 didn't feel as fun yet unnecessary as it was. But, here we are. Obviously there's no going back on the project now, though I have a thought in the back of my head that their November 2013 movie is a way of having a fallback in case MU doesn't work out so well for Pixar. As much as I wish they could find more original ideas, all I can hope for is they do something interesting here. Otherwise they could be turning into the DisneyToon studios that everyone feared would bastardize Pixar's beloved films.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Your Favorite Deputy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm

monsters university sounds like crap

*edited for graphic content* - Rachel.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby mentalguru » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:01 pm

Language YFD, plus, dude a bit graphic- though I'm not sure that makes sense to me, I mean the only thing I know are the details on what happens in that video and it's incredibly gross that the mere image I had from the description was enough to keep me away.

Anyhow, personally I do have a lot of concerns for this prequel not least because of the premise told to us doesn't sound great. Granted a lot of film premises sound awful on paper and turn out to be good. Though I've said it before- if it turns out to be a university for ONLY scaring or something like that I will be really annoyed because it's just plain silly and inconsistent with what we know and see of the trainees in the company. Scaring is not something you're likely to need a degree in. Not to say that some scarers wouldn't HAVE one but there would likely be no degree simply for the purpose of 'Scaring' only as a full vocational degree like say other vocations which would (like to be a doctor etc.). Instead said random scarer might have a history degree or something or even something based on 'Human World Studies' (as little and inaccurate as it must be given how they view humans then- in fact it's possible they could only have that as a class if what they think they know is little as it is other than perhaps it being widely and highly inaccurate beyond geography). But Scaring itself having a degree? Oh heck no.

Plus I looked into the brand new up and coming director and it was a mixed bag as far as he was concerned (Dan Scanlon). He was an animator on a Dreamwork's Biblical movie- the Joseph one- which is genuinely a good movie in of itself (not as good as Prince of Egypt along the same vein but still- good, rather like that movie the biblical characters felt like real people unlike how many media protrays such characters for instance in other movies, which tend to be cringe worthy and hammy, these twop being rare exceptions). There's also him listed on an animator on a film I don't have much information on but sounds kind of trippy. (The Indescribable Nth).

However he was the story-boarder for one ehhhh... okay but generally nothing really special film- 101 Dalmations 2: Patch's London Adventure and the TERRIBLE Little Mermaid sequel (you know the one where they brough in a sister for Ursula which never even appeared in the original film who simply wanted REVVVEEEENGE and was going to use Ariel's daughter, a daughter who loved the sea and who could have been interesting and worked well in a better plot idea without a Seal/Penguin Timon and Pumbaa-like rip off team?)

It's really hard to gauge it with him overall. There's no previous directing experience of course but he will get final say, even over the original director- and that guy's a major writer (then again he's likely to ask him for advice). However another major writer is the director which gave us Finding Nemo and WALL-E so who the heck knows at that stage.)

I'm more apprehensive than hopeful but want Pixar to prove me wrong of course on this. But overall I am finding it hard to be excited for this movie which is kind of strange and sad since the original is the one movie I go stupid over and pick apart and criticise more because I love a lot of other things about it too.

But a part of me is saying: Don't get your hopes up. Myabe not lose it completely until the end credits roll but... yeah.

Overall it's almost like an experiment and they're letting this new guy in perhaps to see what he can do. Whether it's a disaster or not really remains to be seen in the end though. Granted with people tearing apart Cars 2 in terms of critics I guess Pixar is almost prepared if the worst happens. (And besides they're still likely to make a mint at the box office in MU too whatever the critics say.).

Right now? I look and love and feel hope for Brave most of all out of the Pixar films I have to see yet.

Personally I have yet to see Cars 2 myself, though I'm prepared for the idea that while it won't be bad it might not be to my tastes (and there's a difference there after all- being not being into something and thinking it horrible that is- the former doesn't mean the latter in all cases).

Maybe MU will even be the same in that vein? Something I can see others enjoying but I won't as much as I want to? Hard to say really.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Rac_Rules » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:03 am

I agree with the above. The premise just seems too silly and too "gimmicy"; too much like they're running out of ideas. Really, it sounds like bad fanfiction. Toy Story, I can understand, as it has huge nostalgic value and potential for a continued story (not after 3, though). But Monster's Inc? the movie that came out 10 years ago and isn't really even one of Pixar's particularly notable films? If there is going to be a sequel to anything, I really think the Incredibles is the only one that could work.

To be honest, I really don't give a crap how Mike and Sully were when they were in college. Years later? With the monster world changed forever and Sully leading the company? How they interact with Boo after she's no longer a child? Sure! Awesome! But before? Before their character development? Before they become who I love? No. Don't really care. To quote Patton Oswalt in his stand up about the Star Wars prequels, "I don't give a s*** where the stuff I love comes from! I just love the stuff I love!"

Here it is, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Zmuoze65U Be forewarned of adult language up ahead!
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby mentalguru » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:11 am

Good points R_R but I wouldn't say Monsters Inc is un-notable and lacking in nostalgia. Maybe in comparison to Toy Story as it was their first film and the first film to have sequels of any kind form Pixar to keep it going but still. Granted the ff.net section is pretty small in M.I. among other things.

I think I have to agree with you a bit on prequels too, I guess sometimes they work but honestly I think that- along with certain crossovers they're better just left for fandom to play around with and have fun with as they see fit. Plus any development Mike and Sulley had, heck it hasn't even really started in this prequel- they'll fear human kids and look rediculous like everyone else- any new characters introduced will just not be that important either given what we know of their future. I think a major strength of the last film was having a world connected to 'ours' in our own way. I would LOVE to see some consequences good and bad of the changes which occurred as monster perceptions on the human world changed. There is a great source of drama for instance- would there be resistance? Plus I see potential drama if Boo's parents entered the picture- I don't see them as trusting Sulley very easily at first if they found out. And they would have a RIGHT to know- she's their (very) young daughter- as it's perhaps eventually realised humans are EQUALS to monsters that would be something which would have to be acknowledged. Plus the CDA would not be happy about Boo being with Sulley at all given Roz's stance on the issue that their seperation was the way it HAD to be. The CDA itself is a source of a lot of potential as a barrier or difficulty to overcome- and not only that they would have good reasons for wanting to be a barrier- that is to protect the monster world as they see fit, perhaps even doing so in a variety of morally questionable ways. Sulley and Boo's future has a lot of potential before we even delve into anything related to Randall I know other fans want- but even throwing out the Randall idea there's a lot of possibilities Pixar could go with in an actual sequel. Both on a world level and an individual level represented in the family Boo would obviously belong to.

The prequel idea just sounds... dull. And weird in a sense. For now anyway.

Sometimes prequel stories and crossovers are great or fun, but when I think about it most of the ones I like are generally from fandom works from those who dearly love it or someone in the franchise and just want to try a new angle- don't get me wrong there's a lot of stinkers there too, but still overall it's something which seems to often go rediculously wrong when the creators themselves have a stab at it for some reason- and I think you may have hit the nail on the head there R_R by mentioning the illusive character development being a possible reason for this- Sulley, Mike, Randall AND Boo have potential to devlop FURTHER definintly but...this movie takes place before a major event in their lives- one which changed everything for them when it happened. That would in the future change how just a few monsters view humans and thus change their world in a significant way. It kind of feels like a letdown almost therefore to go backwards and to before that sometimes. It's fine for fans to want to look into it briefly but... I don't know, it's kind of weird in terms of canon works sometimes. And often more pointless than a sequel.

The same can be said about certain ships I like- there are certain ships I love a lot but if they became canon oh goodness it would be AWFUL and even potentially RUIN the show/movie/book. Some things are I think (usually) best kept in fan works rather than canon even when I like said fanworks.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Nexas » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:26 am

*rubs neck* I'll admit it...the focus being on Wazowski and Sullivan and how they become best friends...doesn't seem too..."sparky" to me. I mean we've SEEN it already. They're friends. They live in the same apartment. They're partners in M.I. They fight, they make up. It's been done.

I'm morely looking forward to some hopeful development with Randall (of course), Celia, and whomever else might come in.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Lover_of_Fiction » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:28 am

Your Favorite Deputy wrote:monsters university sounds like crap, but when it comes to pixar's crap, I'm all "two girls, one cup" if you know what i mean.


I LOVE two girls one cup!

Monsters, University gives Pixar a chance to be more creative witjh the monster wirkd, Yhe most creative thing about the first film e=was the odorants...other than that the movie was just the hyman worlld replaced with monsters. Now tjat Cars and Cars 2 have been released, maybe we'll see some creativity here.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby PhantomOfThePixar » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:25 am

Actually, contrary to the low hopes in this thread, I could see a “Monsters” prequel working. All it took was half an hour of racking my brain with the process of reverse-engineering the characters of Mike and Sully. And I’d like to share my process on this thread.

Before I begin, the question arises: why reverse engineer? Because in order to understand how a character goes through a dynamic growth, you must know where they’re going to end up at the end of the story. If a character starts out selfish, he must become selfless by the end of the story (Cars). If he starts out overprotective, he must become trustful by the end of the story (Finding Nemo). If she starts out blindly obedient, she must become self-deciding by the end of the story (Wall-E). See where I’m going with this? That’s how a story works. For a prequel, it’s simply a matter of going backwards in a character arc. Now we can begin.

Let’s start with Sully. In the movie, he began as a confident and highly effective scarer. He was a gentle giant type who put honesty first in all his interactions with the characters around him. Sure, he had his differences with his roommate in their apartment, but what solid and healthy friendship doesn’t have that? Besides, they were minor differences that they could easily iron out over the course of the story.

*Hits the “Reverse Engineer” button*

What could be Sully be in a college setting? Something that is polar opposite of what how his sociological and psychological components were portrayed in “Monsters”. The prequel could start with him being this phony tough, all-bark-no-bite student of scareology (or whatever his major is) who wants all the fame but none of the hard work that goes into achieving that level of greatness. As far as social interaction goes, the only friends he has are fair weather friends with no discernable goals or direction in life. Sound like somebody you know?

From the character, the story can spring forth. It is the writer’s job to put obstacles in the way of the character and take him from selfish to selfless, from greedy to charitable, whatever.

More to come...
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Nexas » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:00 am

The reversal concept is an interesting....concept.
I always pictured Sullivan as a "jock type" in school, with good sports-oriented talent with plenty of "friends" and followers. Of course he might have been a bit of a slacker, but I don't know...depends on when he "buckled down". And since this is university, college, it's a safe bet that THAT has already happened.
Perhaps he'd be tempted to have more "college fun" rather than actually working. And with the folks gone, who probably encouraged him up to normal graduation, he wouldn't have much of a blocker for such things. A struggle between "I've got to work harder" to "I've graduated, I SHOULD have some fun"...

Now Wazowski? He doesn't seem deeper. I mean him in college? Yeah he'd be aiming for the college fun more than actually working. But the difficult part is that if the two "butted heads" before becoming friends then...perhaps Wazowski drags him away from studying for an important test or gets him in trouble with the Dean. *shrugs* Who can say.

On the other scale, pun? , there's Randall. I wouldn't guess he was too popular for some reason. But one things for sure, he's no slouch when it comes to work, or a cheater for that matter. Hard worker as well, even when he's got more piled up than he can handle. And if HE is going to be in this...

There's like 2 strings here. Wazowski would offer Sullivan some much needed "loosening up" which he might need depending on what he's facing. Randall, meanwhile, would be better in getting him focused on what he needs to do to get that shiny degree. But...given that Sullivan and Wazowski become friends in the end, and that Sullivan's prowess (in Scareing at least) is top notch...I'm unsure what could happen.

A lot of open field here, plentiful with development.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby PhantomOfThePixar » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:05 am

Love the way you’re contributing to this, Nexas. Though for this post of mine, I thought I'd take a different route with his prequel personality. Nothing against your input, just adding my own.

Indeed, I can picture Randall in that same college setting. He could part of their graduating class, but I’m getting ahead of myself in terms of character development in this prequel speculation. First comes Mike Wazowski.

In the movie, Mike was introduced as the fun-loving character that motivated his roommate physically and mentally to be at his peak performance. He consists of ideal sidekick qualities that help offset the focused and down-to-earth attitude of his roommate (e.g. he wanted to dig a tunnel with spoons to release Boo into the wild). In a sense, he’s the plucky comic relief, and he’s fully aware of what happens around him, as evidenced by his acts of motivations that help Sully to make the money to pay the bills on their apartment. Yes, he tends to want to take the easy route sometimes (in the beginning, he wants to drive his car to work instead of walking in spite of the power outages Monstropolis was having), but Sully is there to keep him in check. All in all, he’s equal parts comical and supportive.

*Hits the “Reverse Engineer” button*

What would Mike be in a college setting? Something that is polar opposite of what how his sociological and psychological components were portrayed in “Monsters”. The prequel could start with him being this serious, no-nonsense student who knows the meaning of hard work, but achieves it at the price of alienating everyone else around him. He basically lives by his studies and has no time for goofing off, let alone have a girlfriend. As far as social interaction goes, his only friends are the faculty and his books.

He and Sully are in this instance (and in “Monsters, Inc.”) a dynamic pair of pivotal characters. Make them share a college dorm room for a few semesters and you’re bound to have fun-loving conflict.

Coming up next: Randall.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Nexas » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:54 pm

I've actually been at this for awhile. Randall was easy enough to figure out, Wazowski was even easier. Sullivan perhaps had one of the most progression of the three.
By all means go ahead and share.

*prods head* I'd agree on that one. Randall's younger than Sullivan and Wazowski some say, but he's smarter and more ahead in getting into Monsters Inc. than either of them. *taps finger* Hmm...which of course would mean that Randall's nearing the end of his educational service while Sullivan and Wazowski are starting there's. And given Sullivan's development...I would say that Randall might take an interest in him academically.
I always figured that the "Sullivans" were a scarer family. His father was one in my opinion, and rose to be....ahem heh heh...well...I'll get to that someday, and probably knew Waternoose as well, hence how James got so chummy with Henry. So, maybe Randall knows that and wants to see how a "Sullivan" does.
School-wise I always saw Randall as the hard working loner. Not a geek per-say, though maybe one that eventually held his own. Sullivan, on the other hand, was the popular type. Essentially making them at ends of the pole in terms of educational achievement (achievement, not as in one was bad and the other was good, they both were good justh had different paths)

Though Wazowski's not very heh heh...contributive with his own paycheck. Heard he spent a gaggle on a CD collection heh.

Oooh...I doubt polar opposite. Again, personal opinion, not assaulting yours. Wazowski, to me, just seems...hard to change. It takes something...pivotal to change his personality. I see him...as an only child in some regards. Father IS the hard working type, perhaps a lawyer, and tries to instill such things into his son. His mother, on the other hand, spoils him. I can easily see THAT "walk off" when they drop him off in college.

Father: Son...you gotta buckle down now...these are the important days...
Wazowski: *dullard look as if he'd heard this speech too many times*

I would think Wazowski's goals in college would be..."get a car" (if he doesn't already have one) and "get a girl" (which I would think he DOESN'T have one hehehe).
Though....the pivotal thing...I just thought...what if it was Celia. Perhaps it was SHE who influenced him to crack down. Afterall take those notes in his locker, which are accompanied by her picture. SHE may have offered the idea that he put them there to keep him focused.
Of course there's also his nails-on-chalkboard relationship with Randall as well. *rubs temple* Wazowski...I'd picture...wanted to be a Scarer simply because of it being a popular, and perhaps "easy", job to take on. However...he wasn't cut out for it. I always thought the one who TOLD him that or SHOWED him that was Randall. And that THAT was the reason the two butted heads. Randall was a scarer, Wazowski wasn't. Hence in the end why Wazowski road on Sullivan's coattails since HE was a scarer.

Though the whole "no-nonsense" thing. If such was Wazowski back then...then it would prove an interesting interaction with Randall consider he probably has the same opinion. The thought of THOSE two as friends makes me turn green, but it is possible, however briefly.

It's...complicated...I mean I honestly see Wazowski as hard to change...and with the above, maybe it was Randall telling him he WASN'T cut out to be a scarer (which he honestly wasn't), is what was the driving force (perhaps along with Celia) that made him buckle down.

*rubs hands* Oh he's next...well...lets uhh see.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Chuckles » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:02 am

Shock Video Trolling aside, I'm not really excited for MU either. I'm just going to have to take it like a man. Now Brave on the other hand? I'm all there. :mrgreen:
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Flik-E » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:53 am

To be honest, the only real concern I have about this film at all right now is really just possible continuity issues. I believe it was either Nexas or mentalguru who pointed out a line in the original of Mike telling Sulley that they were friends since the 4th grade or something like that. How would that make sense if they didn't become friends until college? I'm not sure how they're going to get around that, but I can only think of two things:

1. The story gets a rewrite later on in production so that Mike and Sulley are already friends when they go to college.

2. They get Billy Crystal to dub over his line in the original to "since college" for some future re-release on Blu-Ray or DVD.

Even if they go with option 1 however, it could just make the idea of a prequel seem even more pointless, cause I have to think that prequels work best when they're some kind of origin story or a backstory that tells us how these well-established characters first came to know each other. For example, who would have thought before George Lucas made The Phantom Menace that Darth Vader was a little kid that created C-3PO? I'm sure I didn't.
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Nexas » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:23 am

I honestly can't remember. I've done many pointing outs, and Mental seems to share my wavelength so I can't be certain.
But to reiterate...it was actually Kindergarten when they first met. Sullivan accidentally thought Wazowski was a footstool. Apparently they became friends ever since.

Good not about re-writes. They have 2 years to make this story. So maybe making the sets, such as the university itself will be universal in any circumstance with what script is made, as well as additional characters. So during that time, the script could be refined and changed.

Doing such a dub purely for such a thing would seem...petty...and depending...costly 0_0
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Re: Fan's Plea: Why I don't want Monsters University to be made

Postby Ristar » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:29 am

I just can´t see Mike as the typical popular cool kid surrounded by boys/girls, i just can´t
And Sulley as the shy, hard-working type :lol:

And about the importance of the sequel, i think Mike and Sulley are two of the best character in all the Pixar movies, and since they have a backstory which can be explotaible, why not? :lol:
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