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Brave Switches Directors

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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby Reaper052 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:33 pm

If Pixar were firing Chapman because of sexism, then why would they have given her the project in the first place? I'm pretty sure that the only reason they gave her the job as director was because she was a woman, so I don't get why that same thing would be the reason they fired her. It doesn't make sense, so I'd really like to think that something else was the problem with the movie under her direction.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby ellie-jessie-eve » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:16 pm

I don't like how people are playing the gender card bout this. It's disapointing, that she's not currently at Pixar. I liked her other film, the Prince of Egypt. But remember, we're not getting details on why she's being let go, besides 'creative differences.'

But singling her out and saying oh no, they fired a woman! THAT'S sexist to me. It shouldn't matter what gender she was.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby bryanbmp » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:41 pm

I like her, but if she had to leave because the film was going in a wrong direction, I'm happy with Pixar's decision to switch directors
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby thedriveintheatre » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:46 am

If Pixar were firing Chapman because of sexism, then why would they have given her the project in the first place?

As I said, sexism is only one of the many possible reasons. Besides, sexism doesn't have to be overt for it to exist. Hypothetical example: if the Brain Trust were faced with two candidates with equal qualifications and talent, and one was a man and another was a woman, which would they pick? No matter which way they go, people are bound to say that you're discriminating against the other party. So really, they could've simply given her a shot, but later figured out that she was a 'liability' and ditched her for another equal male candidate who is more compliant with their suggestions. Perhaps if they had picked another female candidate who was also equally subservient to their whims, the 'gender issue' would be moot. But is that sexism? Only if one believes it is. I'm inclined to think that they are more favourable towards those who accept the Brain Trust's suggestions.

My main bone is not so much the perceived sexism (although it remains a possibility in this age), but the studio's hypocrisy over directorial independence. That is the greatest tragedy, as I reiterated in my post.

I don't like how people are playing the gender card bout this. It's disapointing, that she's not currently at Pixar. I liked her other film, the Prince of Egypt. But remember, we're not getting details on why she's being let go, besides 'creative differences.'

Exactly, it annoys me when people shout "Racist" or "Sexist" when there could be any number of possible reasons (including racism or sexism).

I guess the fact that they gave such a subjective answer open to interpretation provided plenty of fodder for the conspiracy theorists and female libs to chew upon. I'm not so much bothered by the fact that she was a woman, but that her vision was not respected and that she had to leave the project because of the Brain Trust's resistance to her idea. They have every right to provide input since they are financing her and giving her the resources to realize her dream, but this runs against all the proud chest-beating about being an unconventional Hollywood studio before.

I like her, but if she had to leave because the film was going in a wrong direction, I'm happy with Pixar's decision to switch directors

Again, "wrong direction" is subjective. For all we know, she may have had the better direction. "Decision by committee" is not entirely foolproof, and has the possibility of failure.


I love Pixar, but they're starting to give me doubts with all the quiet politicking, the cancellation of Newt due to "story problems" (only for Lasseter to make a passing remark at a rival film a few months later), and their increasing reliance on sequels and TV shows (by Pixar Canada).

I elaborate on this (as well as provide a counter-argument against the consolation that Brave still has a lead female protagonist) in this blog post:
Further Ruminations on the Chapman Incident
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby Reaper052 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:16 am

thedriveintheatre wrote:I love Pixar, but they're starting to give me doubts with all the quiet politicking, the cancellation of Newt due to "story problems" (only for Lasseter to make a passing remark at a rival film a few months later), and their increasing reliance on sequels and TV shows (by Pixar Canada).


I really think you overreacted to Lasseter's comment about newt and Rio. I read the same interview, and the guy didn't really say anything bad about the film. His comments basically boiled down to something along the lines of "great minds think alike".
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby thedriveintheatre » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:24 am

I really think you overreacted to Lasseter's comment about newt and Rio.

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I remember when it first came out, I described his comment as a "potshot". But notice I now described it in my last post as a "passing remark". I have since decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But the way how the websites and blogs described it, they have certainly overreacted in the manner of which you describe (ie blaming Rio for Newt's cancellation based on Lasseter's comment).* So if I do believe that Lasster was making a snide remark, I wouldn't be alone.

Personally, I have given my idol the B.O.D., but I can imagine he would be amused by how people have taken his quote to mean that as an official confirmation that Rio killed Newt, even if he didn't imply anything of that sort.

Just goes to show how the Internet can take your words out of context.

*Look at the headlines of the below articles:

http://pixarblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/l ... n-for.html

http://au.movies.ign.com/articles/116/1165409p1.html

http://www.movieline.com/2011/05/the-wo ... ixar-1.php
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby Reaper052 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:19 am

I definitely agree with you about the websites not giving Rio enough of a chance, my point is just that if Pixar had hard feelings about newt, then I don't think they would have canceled it. It happened because the honorable thing to do was to let Rio's director finish his film, which was very personal to him. If Pixar didn't respect him, I think they would have just gone ahead with newt, and it probably would have been much more successful than Rio. They let the underdog have his time to shine, and I think we both agree that it was good in the end.

But now we are going off topic, so lets just leave it at that. :wink:
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby thedriveintheatre » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:17 am

I definitely agree with you about the websites not giving Rio enough of a chance, my point is just that if Pixar had hard feelings about newt, then I don't think they would have canceled it. It happened because the honorable thing to do was to let Rio's director finish his film, which was very personal to him. If Pixar didn't respect him, I think they would have just gone ahead with newt, and it probably would have been much more successful than Rio. They let the underdog have his time to shine, and I think we both agree that it was good in the end.

I agree with this, but I'm also inclined to think that was not the only reason... they simply didn't have a good story to work with (which was their official reason anyway). I also write about why Rio is superior from a story standpoint than what we can tell from Newt's synopsis in this blog post (start reading from the paragraph that begins, "on the other hand I was a little dissapointed with the story..."). Sorry to keep posting links, but I could copy and paste the same material here and it would just clutter the boards.

But basically, I have learnt to let go of Newt, and I believe Rio has proudly carried the mental of 'Newt's ghost' for Pixar, if that makes any sense. A lot of the Pixar fanboys still stubbornly hold on to the project as if it will someday be resurrected. If it does, I'll be glad. If it doesn't, I won't be bitter or resentful against a rival studio about it. Sometimes, we have to let go.

Sorry to add another point to your argument, but I just had to get that out. If you want (and if a thread hasn't been created yet), perhaps you can set up another thread to debate over this? Or maybe I can? Or we can keep discussing it here, although as you have said, it's a little off-topic. I'm okay either way. ;)

.....

Here's what I replied to another poster on Wall-E forums about the Chapman incident:

I totally agree with you, WED. I was actually gonna elaborate on that point in my follow-up post. The fact that they said it was due to "creative differences" left it open to interpretation, and provided plenty of ammo for the conspiracy theorists and female libs.

Besides, my main beef was not with the perceived sexism (although that still remains a possibility, though unlikely), but with the studio's hypocrisy over directorial independence. Again, we may never know if Brenda just got fed up with the Brain Trust's insistence on conforming to their suggestions and just left them in the cold, or if she was given an ultimatum to follow the Brain Trust's orders or leave, or if her family was held hostage by the Brain Trust's private militia, yada yada yada.

We will never know the exact circumstances because we weren't there. But it is fun to speculate, and I believe there's more political machinations involved than merely a simple disagreement over story auteurship. Anyway, if it was indeed over a simple disagreement, it would still prove my point that Pixar does not place enough faith in its own people, and is slowly starting to resemble the control-freak that was Katzenberg in the early days of Dreamworks.


And here's what one Wall-E Forum member had to say on Brenda's mysterious departure and the difficulties of featuring a female protagonist in films:

'Re: Brave director leaves project?' by Sallykie
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby bryanbmp » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:15 pm

why the hate on Pixar???
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby IncredigirlVirginia » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Hmm....those blogs were interesting, TDIT. Honestly, I wasn't really excited for Newt at all. And now that it's cancelled, I don't really care. Rio was fantastic, and that's good enough for me. And personally, I might be biased because he's awesome, but I doubt Mr. Lasseter's comment was a smack at Rio. I think he was pretty respectful. Personally, I think the cancellation of Newt was the right way to go.

And on the actual topic of the thread(HAHAHA), I wish they would just o ahead and tell us why the heck they fired Brenda. I was very interested in another film by her. I know she's still "co-director", but that's not the same. I wish they wouldn't be such chickens and say WHY. I just want to know why. :(
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby thedriveintheatre » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:05 am

why the hate on Pixar???

If that was directed at me, I assure you, I have the studio's best interests at heart, and that I still have faith in them if they do a little soul-searching and be more trusting of its employees. If that was directed at the commenters on Lauren Faust's blog, they have every right to an opinion, just as you and I are entitled to ours. And we must respect that- being defensive without giving a thoughtful counter-argument doesn't contribute to a fruitful discussion. :)

Hmm....those blogs were interesting, TDIT. Honestly, I wasn't really excited for Newt at all. And now that it's cancelled, I don't really care. Rio was fantastic, and that's good enough for me. And personally, I might be biased because he's awesome, but I doubt Mr. Lasseter's comment was a smack at Rio. I think he was pretty respectful. Personally, I think the cancellation of Newt was the right way to go.

I was so excited for Newt, so it hurt me initially to hear it was cancelled. I was even angry at Rio for a while, until I saw the spectacular teaser last year. That, coupled with other factors (Dreamworks improving with HTTYD, Shrek 4, and Megamind, intolerant Pixar fans aggressively defending Toy Story 3 against constructive criticisms, Brenda Chapman leaving the Brave project) made me realise that we all have to let go and move on, much like Marlin and Woody learnt in their stories.

And I have also applied the same philosophy to Lasseter's comment. Being the good-hearted man that he is, I have decided to give him the benefit of the doubt that the remark wasn't malicious and that a lot of the other websites (including The Pixar Blog) have misinterpreted his quote as the official reason for Newt's cancellation. I highly doubt this would be so, as I have said many times, because this is highly uncharacteristic of Pixar to be afraid of a rival film.

And on the actual topic of the thread(HAHAHA), I wish they would just o ahead and tell us why the heck they fired Brenda. I was very interested in another film by her. I know she's still "co-director", but that's not the same. I wish they wouldn't be such chickens and say WHY. I just want to know why.

I would really love to hear Brenda's side of the story too- perhaps someone should interview her, although I doubt she will tell the truth as she still has affiliations with Pixar (I think she's still an employee, just no longer attached to the project). And of course, we can't trust the PR spokespeople from Pixar, because they of course have a vested interest to make the studio look good.

Perhaps if another employee leaves the studio (like Lou Romano's rather bitter departure, he has been drawing cartoons that openly mock Disney), he/she will be able to provide a revealing behind-the-scenes look at the unsavoury parts of the studio.

I'm not saying this to 'hate' on Pixar. Every studio has its weaknesses. I bet there's even political back-stabbings happening in the halls of Dreamworks Animation or Blue Sky or Studio Ghibli or whatever. Every company has such corporate fiascos. It's just that people like to think of Pixar as a 'hallowed ground' immune to commercialisation or back-room dealings, when it might possibly be far from the truth.

And few fans like to question that. Reverence blinds you to inquiry.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby IncredigirlVirginia » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:05 pm

Yeah, I doubt we'll get the truth too. I just wish we would. And could I have a link to the Lou drawings? That makes me sad and nervous, I hadn't read/seen that he was gone. Was it because he disliked Wall-E? :shock: :?

Anyway, I'm still a huge fan of Pixar, for movies already made, and interest in future products. But I'm also a fan of Walt Disney Animation Studios, BlueSky, Illumination, Ghibli, Sony, and a cautious DW mini-fan. We'll see where that goes with KFP 2, HtTYD 2, and whatever else happens. 8D :| I'm not an elitist, and I prefer individual films to companies. I just have a special love of Pixar, because I don't believe they've made a bad movie, and I love almost all of theirs. And, well, both of my biggest obsessions are Pixar-produced. 8D I have no shame.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby weirdojace » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:09 am

Did we ever get explicit details on the reason Ratatouille switched from Jan Pinkava to Brad Bird before it was released? No. It's probably too soon to find out any of this info, and we'll probably get to hear the story after Brave comes out.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby pixarfan9099 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:12 am

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20043277,00.html

It says here that the Brain Trust lacked confidence in Pinkava's story development.
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Re: Brave Switches Directors

Postby weirdojace » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:17 am

Which could also be considered "creative differences."

If the Pixar staff thinks Brave is better off without her, it very well might be. We'll have to see the movie before we can judge that though.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't sexism in the workplace, though. That'd be silly.
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