Adults & Animation

The Common Room Other Animation
#1

I was reading an article the other day about 9, which was asking if people of an older age would now become more open minded towards going to see more mature animated movies. I can’t help but wonder the same thing, myself.

If animated movies were suddenly producing movies that were meant for an audience that wasn’t children, do you think the public would go and watch it? Or do you think that the preconceptions of who and what animated cinema are for is just something that is too strong to break?

I mean, admittedly Pixar are helping out a lot in order to make movies for everyone and ultimately make animated movies stand up against the best live action films. But from what i’ve heard from people I know, and the general word outside of specialist sites such as these are usually things like “That was pretty good, for a cartoon”

Personally, i would like to remain optimistic in the movie going audience and legitimately believe that they would go and see an animated movie which wasn’t marketed towards kids, but then I could never really tell. There seems to be somewhat of a desire to leave cartoons and animation behind with the rest of your childhood until you’ve reached a certain age, which i find to be a fairly backwards way of thinking (Though this is just my opinion). But I suppose i’m in two minds over whether animation will ever truly be embraced by a large majority of people and be seen as something more than fodder for children and teens to enjoy (I say teens, when thinking of most Anime)

Any thoughts?

#2

It’s interesting that you brought this topic up. I personally get irritated when people call Pixar movies “kid” movies, they’re family films. It’s also pretty interesting how diverse the audiences I’ve been in are lately.

I was around a large group of kids in my last Up viewing, but the adults outweighed the children by far. This is typically the case for most screenings I’ve been to. It’s honestly really cool to stand outside the box office, and watch several middle-aged couples and college students go “I’d like one for Up please”, it puts a big grin on my face. I’m a bit of a dork though. Since it’s the dollar theater, people don’t always know what they want to watch, so I make recommendations here and there. Got a few people into the movie, so I’m pretty proud.

As for 9, when I went to see it, almost everyone in the theater was a college or high-school student. It was a bit more stark, and bland in the theater as a result, but I enjoyed the film. Not much chatter afterwards where I heard a ton for other films leaving the theater. I’ve engaged a few people in conversation about it as well, one woman, her friend, and her daughter actually staying through the Up credits. Most of the theater did that time actually, and I made a point to let them know I was surprised.

“Wow, nobody ever stays through the credits! Awesome!”
Woman:“Well, only for Pixar films.”

That put a smile on my face, and I think my heart skipped a beat as well.

My latest viewing also got me into a conversation with a large family of at least 5, none of them under the age of 19 or so. It’s really amazing to see how many mature patrons actually show up to these animated screenings.

Personally, I think the general populous views animation as a fun way to spend their time in front of the big screen, and finding deep meaningful content in these films is just a big bonus. Some people might view them as kid-oriented, but they might want to revisit that, and that’s why they go to these films. That, and a lot of the people I’ve spoken with about Pixar know that they’re notable for their amazing storytelling. Puts a bit of hope back in my view towards the general population being naive about movies at face value, although it’s usually the older, more refined adults that attend these screenings than people say in their 30’s, more accustomed to money shots and cheap thrills.

#3

I’m a firm advocator for animated films being accepted by a wider audience. It angers me (well, greatly annoys would be a more accurate description) when people say things like “It’s just a kiddie fim” or “Aren’t you too old to be watching that?”

Kids grow up too fast nowadays. They swear earlier, know more about adult themes than probably their parents themselves, and generally lose their youthful innocence and optimism on life far too early. You can thank films, video games and TV shows like Transformers, Halo and Family Guy being deceptively marketed to youth audiences for maturing too soon.

But I digress. I seem to be arguing for the inverse. On the flip side, adults seem reluctant to ‘embrace their inner child’ and submit to youthful fancies, afraid of being seen as too infantile. The thing is, you’re never too old for animated films. The greatest are those that entertain the kids while offering deeper themes for the grown-ups to appreciate.

I’m all for grown-up animated films. It means less of the annoying rugrats in the theatres and a greater exploration into another medium besides live-action. Perhaps it is because of animation’s possibilities of fantastical worlds and characters that can do the impossible which are considerably easier to recreate than live-action that makes them less ‘grounded in reality’. And adult, arthouse films tend to be based too much on life’s mundanity. Animation offers that chance to escape to lands where inanimate objects move, animals move, and heroes have to succeed against the odds to save the world.

With the advent of 3-D though, the lines between live-action and animation may blur, but the prejudice against animated flicks remains the same: they are being discriminated for their fantastical aesthetics purely because they are being perceived to be more suited for a more younger audience. This perception needs to change, and as such, the ‘cartoon’ films that matter to me and hold a special place in my heart are those who are able to transcend that barrier and appeal to people across generations, young or old.

If you understood the thesis/rant I just typed up, you stand a chance to win a Sky-Cruise Trip to Paradise Falls aboard the luxury airship, The Spirit of Adventure. Proudly sponsored by BnL.

Pixar R-rated Films FTW! :sunglasses:

#4

Haha, I gotcha TDIT. I don’t understand why animation is stereotyped so heavily. I think it’s the Pixar films that break the biggest mold though, practically everyone wants to go see them. Pixar may have even gone as far as to make a different category for themselves in films. You have animated films, then Pixar films. Not trying to play them up or anything, I’m being totally serious. I think more people would be more comfortable saying they went and saw Wall•E instead of something like Bolt or Over the Hedge. It’s a shame in most cases, as Pixar isn’t the only company who makes great animated films, but the public seems to be more content with seeing them over most others.

The “kiddie” perspective seems to come from a purely aesthetic standpoint, perceiving animation as “goofy” or “silly” when it can be used for as much, heck, far beyond what live action is capable of, which is the whole point! It goes to show how far the human imagination has diminished over the year. Crowds were roaring over Toy Story, of all ages, and nowadays, that crowd has seemed to thin rather dramatically. Sure, everyone’s gonna go see Toy Story, but how many are truly anticipating it with the same vigor as back in the hay-day? Not as near as many.

The strongest point you cover is the maturity of youth these days. It’s absolutely appalling seeing 11 and 12 year-olds spurting obscenities, it irritates the absolute life out of me. It’s awful to see how low-standard the media, as well as parental guidance has become and how easily shunned the absolute splendor of youth is now.

I’m still in my childhood, or if I’m not, I certainly want to be in it. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to try to act like an egocentric snob playing off as a tough guy rather than run around barefooted climbing trees, making stories, and having so much naivety as most of us here did as kids. The world was amazing then, and I absolutely cherish those moments I had.

On the opposite end of the scale, you have those adults who were privileged enough with a strong lineup of inspiring events in their life, especially things such as early Disney and the classic cartoons, almost all of which were absolutely untouchable. Back then, it was wholesome, riveting, new, and almost perfect. People raised on these sort of things can appreciate the true gems in modern animation, such as this return to 2D Lasseter is pushing so hard. It doesn’t have to take serious premises to engage adult audiences, the nostalgia brings so much to everyone. Memories for the old, and a look at what animation was for the young.

Of course, I’m ranting about something entirely off-topic from what’s intended. The target audience of animated films like 9 don’t trouble me in the least. Animation is a medium, separate from live-action. That’s ALL it is. It allows filmmakers to break boundaries that are held up by the rules of our universe, and create a film experience that isn’t possible otherwise. Whether the plots are wholesome, serious, or even risque is up to whoever chooses to use it. I think animation needs to be captured by aspiring directors and utilized to its full potential. Live films have almost done it all in terms of story, while animation has been practically untouched by serious, more pretentious directors. I encourage the medium entirely, it just depends on the quality of what comes out of it that I find troublesome. I think animation is completely open to any subject

#5

…It absolutely is, yet almost everyone outside of Japan continues to ignore this.

(Pardon my going a bit off-topic here…)

Anime is still the only corner of the animation world where anything is possible with regards to subject matter and target audience(s).
Not that we will ever see much of this exported to other countries.

Here in Germany the market for Anime DVDs has positively collapsed.
Newly licensed titles are rare, many a show is abandoned before all episodes have been released, and of course piracy is seen as the root cause of it all.

My interest in Anime has waned quite a bit over the last couple of years, mainly because there is no good way to legally check out new releases before deciding whether or not it is worth to buy the discs (which are quite expensive due to the low volume).
TV rarely goes beyond over-commercialized garbage like Pokemon, which doesn’t help much, either.

I wish there was some sort of legal, ad-supported streaming service for Anime, and one that’s available in all countries (unlike Hulu and friends, which are US-only).
Until then the occasional Ghibli release in theaters is at good as it gets.

#6

“Anime is still the only corner of the animation world where anything is possible with regards to subject matter and target audience(s).”

Yes, but most of them don’t make money, and are piss-poor when it comes to stories and entertainment. I love a good Japanese cartoon–I love a good film from anywhere–but there are FAR more bad ones than good.

#7

Sid, you might want to be more careful about word choice, just letting you know

I disagree with Sid. totoro makes a good point, directors of anime films seem to stretch the capabilities in terms of story. Whether or not they do it well is up for personal opinion, but there’s no doubt they’ve made a number of great films. That’s generally the type of ambition I was talking about in terms of covering new ground in stories for animation. They’re daring, certainly different, and in many ways, innovative. They are generally obscure, but just look at how different the culture is. It’s probably a bit more familiar to them than it is to us, so it just seems a lot different.

Of course, you get the occasional flop, but it’s to be expected. Besides, there can’t be great movies without bad ones, otherwise every movie would have the same value of entertainment. Thus, they would all be predictable, and boring as a result.

#8

They already have cartoons aimed toward adults, so i dont see why they would shy away from making any 3D animation that fit those demographics as well.

#9

There have been some good points brought up in this thread.

Honestly, I don’t think an adult American audience would go out in big numbers to see an animated film made more for adults. Regardless of anything, there is still a major stigma in America, and most people consider cartoons to be “for kids.” I agree that any genre can be done in animation, though I’d argue as to whether they should, but I can’t see it doing well at the box office in current America. One of the reasons animation in Japan does more mature stuff, is because animation was there way to make big-budget movies, without having to match the budget of a live-action movie. Japan isn’t and wasn’t Hollywood, so there way of making similar big movies, was to simply do them animated, and people went with it. We don’t have that in America. Live-action is the main thing in film, and we no have the ability to pretty much do anything we want in live-action. I think because of this, people assume live-action is always better, and I also think most people would prefer to see things in live-action. For example, look at all the Hollywood super-hero movies coming out. Alot of these characters have existed in animated form for years, but I’m not gonna lie, it was insanely cool to see Spider-man done in live-action. It just is that cool to see characters like that brought semi into the “real world”. Would an animated Spider-Man movie be ok? Yeah, if the story and animation were top-notch, I could see it doing well at the box office, but it’s still cooler to see it done in live-action.
Brad Bird did a superhero movie in animation, and he admitted that it was a movie that could have easily been done in live-action. The key thing he said though, was The Incredibles in live-action couldn’t be done the same way in animation. That, I think, is the key to doing any genre in animation. You have to really take advantage of the medium, and do it in a way that can’t be done in live-action. That mentality is what would allow other genres to work in animation, and be successful. If someone made a serious drama movie in animation, and it was full of people talking and sitting, why do it in animation? You’d have to really push the facial expressions, and exaggerate actions, and use an interesting art style, and it could work, but only if you really try to make ti like something you couldn’t see in animation. Drama doesn’t lend itself well to animation though, and personally, I wouldn’t want to see a drama animated movie, though I typically wouldn’t want to see a live-action movie though. Some genres do lends themselves to animation, action and comedy being the main ones. Really though, as long as you’re really taking advantage of waht animation can do that live-action can’t, you can do a lot more types of stories in animation than people think.

#10

I totally see what you’re saying. Everyone thinks I’m so confusing b/c I have a college reading level but I still watch Pixar films every year. I find this ignorant and hurtful. Cartoons are for EVERYONE; not kids, not extremely naive people, everyone.

#11

I somewhat agree. I respect almost all media (except for Twilight, ugh, there’s nothing good at all in that!) but yeah, animation is often looked down upon. films with cheery happy talking animals that constantly make pop-culture references and crude humor are not my forte, however. These usually let people make the assumption that animation is, indeed, for little kids. While these people obviously haven’t seen a masterpiece like Up and How To Train Your Dragon which are, indeed, devoid of all those dreadful fads. Now, about the media nowadays - I don’t like what’s it’s been turned into. Alas, I still play Mario games, watch animated movies daily, and sees Animal Planet daily - a strong contrast to the kids nowadays, who, like mentioned earlier, prefer things like Transformers, Halo, and all that other stuff. So yeah, whenever I encounter ANOTHER Mario fan, I literally squee with joy.

That doesn’t mean I completely HATE anything crude humor and stuff - when used correctly it can be HILARIOUS. Conker’s Bad Fur Day for example, love it or hate it, you gotta say, it’s an unique game in its genre. Basically a satire towards all these cartoons with talking animals - but Conker himself, unlike for the ‘cartoon-gone-wrong’ game, is somewhat decent. Being the only sane man (squirrel) of course, he ALMOST never utters a foul word, unless almost all other characters, and his love for alcohol gets him nowhere in the end, and to say the least, the ending made me CRY.

Oh man, I’m rambling. So very sorry. D:

#12

Oh America has SOME cartoons which manage to cross over, not just Pixar stuff. There’s Avatar: TLA for instance, from my icon. It’s ‘TV-Y7’ in America (and is ‘PG’ rated here, which basically means 8 and up more or less I believe). But… the amount of college/university people who got into it was ENORMOUS. AND older. A large proportion of the fans are adult , including myself. It’s a great show. Highly recommend it.

Other cartoons include the Gargoyles (the first two seasons were excellent anyway before they fired the creator). AMAZING. I loved that show, and its fanbase is small but loyal. It’s more adult than kiddie for definite and has amazing lessons in it. Some things sailed over my head when I was a kid but I still enjoyed it- but loved it MORE as an adult and appreciated it on a far higher level.

The newer TMNT (Ninja turtles) cartoon was a bit younger in its age group (more teens), but still good. For the first few seasons anyway (the last two seasons were terrible admittaedly- BECAUSE they decided to dumb it down).

What else?

How about the Nineties Justice League cartoon (‘Justice League Animated’) you know which had the GOOD animation? (Not the most recent incarnation). It was great in some ways too. Probably somewhere between TMNT and Gargoyles in audience. Also had the most fantastic version of Superman I’ve ever seen. And his relationship with Batman was great. Most of the characters were. And the story line was complicated and amazing.

Another more recent cartoon which was great is Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends.

Pixar isn’t alone in animation when it comes to drawing older people in. Far from it.

But everytime I see a Pixar the revieweres say its ‘okay’ for adults to like animation again. A part of me wonders and wants to ask… why there was a law against it before? :laughing:

Anime is a mixed bag. 99% well, is pure garbage and all about the ‘fan service’- SOME is okay. But for me less is more in that department if you get me. Anime has some good ones too though, but I hate the idea that its somehow ‘better’ then Western animation. No. Rather like anime, there is a lot of bad stuff but there is some good stuff too. In fact there’s far more bad anime because there is so much more anime in GENERAL I think. It’s a question of pure and utter volume. Of COURSE there is some good anime shows- with the amount they churn out, it would be almost impossible for them not to get it right SOMETIMES.

Animation doesn’t have to be about childhood (though it can be, and do it in a great way). It’s just another medium with which to a display a story. That is how I feel it should be taken as and hope it will continue to be taken as. There is more deepness in Gargoyles then say the amount of garbage you get from the live action tween shows of Disney XD.