I personally liked KFP2 more than Cars 2.
Okay. I saw the movie. And I don’t know why people are bashing this movie so much. This movie completely rocked! Granted, I love the cars character, I love spy/action movies, and granted, i am a sucker when a little hint of sports in added to the mix. But saw nothing wrong with this movie. In fact, I love this movie just as much as Cars 1.
I wasn’t expecting a masterpiece like TS3. BUt I did come in with expectations and it blew me away. I loved the movie. The action was very exciting and it had me playing the scenese althoughout the drive back home.
[spoil]I don’t care if the focus was more on mater this movie than the first one. It was still a brilliantly done story. And I like how Mater shocked me and proved that he can be a hero instead of cheering on the sidelines.
One last thing I’ll say for my brief review is the amount of fun I had. Watching this movie was not only a blast. But I also loved watching for the references and solving the myster in the movie.[/spoil]
I can see what you are saying, TSS. There were some parts of the movie that I did like, and I don’t hate it at all. I’m looking forward to watching it again while looking for in-jokes, especially as for some reason, that my cinema’s film reel wasn’t all the best.
However, I just don’t think it reaches the level of a Pixar film, therefore, it should have never gotten past the story stage. Can you truly say that Cars 2 had the moments like in Ratatouille where Remy is caught making the soup by Linguini? Or the moment when the house lifts in the air during Up? Or in WALL-E where he is watching Hello, Dolly? Where are those magical moments in Cars 2? That is what I mean about this movie being forced. Like it’s ok on paper and it should be entertaining and touching, and everything that a Pixar film is, but something just doesn’t click. It just has a funny feeling throughout. If it were a studio other than Pixar, Dreamworks even, I would probably think that it’s not too bad, but because I’m a Pixar fan and know what they are capable of, and also that I never thought they would release a film like this, it makes me quite puzzled. If I weren’t such a fan, then I wouldn’t be as critical.
And the worst part of it even being released, is that you have smart alec reviewers saying, “well, it was only a matter of time before Pixar’s luck ran out.” But creating a good film is not so much about “luck”, it’s about having those same standards as you would for any film, no matter who is directing, and being critical of themselves, so that the wide world doesn’t do it for them, as is what has happened here. It’s not bad luck that this film is getting bad reviews. Or that those reviewers have a vendetta against Cars or those characters. Making those types of excuses is a way of avoiding dealing with the real issue - that luck has nothing to do with the process that Pixar should be using, but for some reason, whether it is because John isn’t the best director, wasn’t followed this time.
Also, there’s only so much of Mater that people can take, you know? And I don’t know if it’s even that, because Mater was quite funny in the first film. It’s just something that I can’t put my finger on. It’s of if Pixar have settled when releasing this. Perhaps in another 10 or 20 years the die hard fans will be able to re-watch it and see what I mean. I know it’s hard to look at things objectively when you are looking forward to something for so long, or perhaps wish that it was as good as the first, but only the sands of time will reveal the truth, I guess.
Even if you thought the film was subpar to Pixar’s usual standards (which I respectfully disagree, but that’s not my point) I don’t think it’s fair to place all of the blame on Lasseter alone. Being a videography enthusiast, having directed a few amateur short films myself, and knowing about the workflow and chain-of-command that goes into a major production like Cars 2, I would just like to point out that the director is not entirely responsible for the final outcome. There’s a lot of trust involved in directing, and it’s more like a mutual symbiotic relationship between the director, producer, sound artists, editor, animators, actors, etc, etc. The director is always open to hear everyone else’s opinions in the production, and it’s also the job of everyone else to put their personal input into the film so that it can be polished into the consummate whole you see on the big screen. I don’t think that Lasseter had supreme overlord powers and forced everyone to do exactly as he said.
In addition, I just want to point out that examining a film objectively does not mean comparing it to Pixar’s previously set standards in the first place. There is no “Pixar magic” in Cars 2 because it was never meant to have any from the first place. It is supposed to be an action movie, and to objectively judge it, that’s what it should be criticized at. Otherwise, I could call Casino Royale a horrible film because it didn’t have any emotionally dense moments. I could bash Up because the action scenes were not gripping and intense enough. Using the same logic, Cars 2 can be dismissed as a poor film because it did not stand up to the emotional benchmarks set by previous Pixar films. Which, in my honest opinion, is not fair, nor is it objectively reviewing. Every film deserves to be judged upon its own merits. Perhaps in another 10 or 20 years the naysayers and critics will be able to rewatch it and see what I mean.
I didn’t say, nor did imply that John Lasseter was forcing people to do as he said, and that he wasn’t open to receiving ideas. If you read back at my first post in this thread, what I said was that the other Pixarians may have been less likely to voice their opinions objectively because John Lasseter was directing. If you think about the chain of command at Pixar, not only is the director responsible for the whole film, but John Lasseter IS the head of Pixar AND the director. In this case, he is doubly responsible for taking control and declining to let production go on if it is not up to scratch (which it obviously was not).
But would YOU put your job on the line if you felt that THE John Lasseter was making a mistake? I know I would have qualms about whether to approach him if I was underneath. He has directed the worst two Pixar films so far, critically. I’m not saying that John Lasseter isn’t talented, and personally, I admire his drawing style and passion for the medium so that everyone can enjoy it, and everything that he’s done for the studio, but as a director, I feel that he probably isn’t the best. The thing is, he should, ideally, know what he is doing, but apparently not.
And I totally 100% disagree with you that there doesn’t need to be any Pixar magic in Cars 2. That is what makes Pixar so special. It doesn’t matter what the story is about, there needs to be that spark, that je ne se quoi that takes your breath away, or makes you laugh so hard, or cry because you can feel for those pixels on screen. The Incredibles is an action movie, and I’m sure that Brave will be too, and I feel that with TI, it had magic because it had a strong story, unlike Cars 2. I am not really a fan of Casino Royal, so I can’t compare other James Bond films with it.
People are ALWAYS going to compare other Pixar films to one another, which is the best and why, so I think it’s a big cop-out to say, “well, of course if you compare it to other Pixar films…” well, yeah, the studio has standards that it has set for itself, thankfully, so each film should be different, yet have that Pixar quality across the board that we expect, and it really isn’t all that much to expect.
If you, and other fans here, enjoyed the movie, and felt it was up to scratch, well, that’s fine, and I’m glad that you did. But it doesn’t help anyone to brush the reviews of the general public who really have no reason to give a good or bad review either way, under the carpet and say that it’s their problem, or that they just don’t like Cars or the characters or whatever. The fact is, the statistics never lie, and something has gone wrong here whether you want to face it or not. Something has gone wrong over at Pixar with the process, and whether it is because of John Lasseter directing, and perhaps he is better with a producing role, or whether the process that does weed out the good stories from the bad (hello, Newt), needs to be enforced no matter WHO is directing.
Now, I’m not saying that Pixar is heading for Dreamworks territory with 23 Cars movies in the pipeline, and that they are quantity over quantity necessarily now, but for Pixar’s sake, they need to take a long hard look at their story process so that this doesn’t happen again.
I very much doubt that this film will be seen as a gem that was so ahead of its time that critics didn’t get it, lol. But we shall see.
^ Completely agreed with the JL stuff. That was concerning me before Cars 2 was even released.
If you ask me, all that went wrong was the public’s expectation that every Pixar film needs to be symbolic and poignant.
One reviewer on RT pretty much put the entire state of things into one review: “Pixar made just a regular movie” they said… and then proceeded to give the film a horrible score.
Why is it a crime for Pixar to just make something fun for one year? Pixar put plenty of quality into Cars 2 to make it what it was; there is so much detail in the visuals, and Lasseter AND the screenwriter flat out told Creative Screenwriting that they didn’t want this one to be a tearjerker, rather just something to have a fun time at. Reading material about the making of process, on the contrary to a mess, it feels like the staff had a better grip for what they wanted than I’ve seen on any other Pixar film. That’s not to say Cars 2 is Pixar’s best film for that, but it does say that the way it wound up wasn’t a mistake.
To me, this is a growing pain of animation. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that animation has gotten to a point of so being respected as an art form that people have grown to expect an artiness to animated films they haven’t seen before. That is amazing and shows major developments in animation over the past few years. I mean seriously! Think about it! Just talking story here, would people have gone to see Cars 2 in the 80s and reacted like this? No way! It gets me excited, to think that Pixar has gotten audiences so used to artistic, poignant animation that they are having trouble accepting anything else! It’s a swing in attitude! It’s too far of a swing, but it’s a start! It’s the beginning of something! There are people who regularly dismiss animation as kid fodder who are complaining about this film, and they aren’t even sure what is missing! Strangely enough, one of Pixar’s least artsy films may get a whole new group of people to acknowledge animation as a genuine artform!
I think, now, it’s time for us to relearn to have silly, fun antics at the movies that made many of us fall in love with animation to begin with. To swing back the other way a little bit, and just have a fun time. 
^I know this barely contributes anything, but I literally couldn’t agree more with Netbug. I thought the same.
No, every Pixar film needs to have a good story with an emotional core, something that the story can be anchored to. Which Cars 2 did not have. I’m not saying that every Pixar film needs to be a life-changing experience, but it needs to be believable and relatable. Cars is harder to relate to in the first place because it is about talking cars (how did they get made? How do they re-produce?), so they are starting off with an extra hurdle in the first place because, from what I’ve read, people in general have not been able to FEEL for the characters. What makes a story have impact is that you can put yourself in the characters place. You’ve been there. Like I said, the story seems ok-ish on paper, but it just seemed very forced.
That’s because, face it, a lot of movies, and animated movies, especially those for kids are crap. Parents and children as an audience are used as an excuse to get the kids out of the house, and it’s those types of audience that will shrug their shoulders and expect LESS from a film because it is a kids film and/or animation. Pixar, pre-Cars 2, proved that you can make a good film that everyone can enjoy, animated or not. So we have come to expect the best from Pixar, so that when they don’t deliver, when they deliver a “regular film” like one you would expect from Dreamworks, a film that is “good enough” it seems really bad. If Pixar cannot proudly and confidently release a movie that matches their previous films, then it shouldn’t have been done. The reason that person gave Pixar a bad score for this regular film, is because you don’t expect average or ok from Pixar, and I for one, am not making any apologies for having high standards of Pixar, because otherwise I wouldn’t be a fan.
Why can’t you have both? Why can’t a film be fun AND a tearjerker? I have no problem with fun films, such as Up. But this film was kind of boring for me and a bit like torture to have to watch Mater’s antics. For every laughter there should be a tear - so did Lasseter throw that motto out the window because his story wasn’t good enough? It just seems as if there is one standard for Lasseter and one standard for the rest. If Lasseter wasn’t directing, and there weren’t billions of dollars to made with merchandising, and if Lasseter didn’t like cars as his own personal hobby, and if this were a new director, there is no way that a film/story such as this would have been released.
If you liked the film, then cool. Glad that you did. But for the general audience to not enjoy it is a very big deal, and it should be a big lesson to Pixar to look at what went wrong because it is a bit embarrassing for them, and a bit embarassing as a Pixar fan. It didn’t need to happen in the first place, but I understand why it was released. It’s just a shame that Pixar’s track record had to suffer as a result of the safe option and mediocrity.
Look, I have no problem with your opinion that the film is inferior to the rest of the Pixar repertoire. Really, I don’t want to come off as attacking your opinion, because you make some valid points. And although I respectfully disagree, no one said everyone has to agree over something subjective like the level of enjoyment from a film. But that’s the thing, it’s subjective. There’s no need to say that Cars 2 has ruined Pixar’s track record or that is inferior as a matter-of-fact, objective statement. Because that’s not a fact, and prominent critics like Roger Ebert, Pete Hammond, and Peter Travers would agree. I’m sorry that you didn’t, but I thoroughly enjoyed the film, and I really do hope Pixar releases more of these fun action films every few years, because I certainly would love seeing another movie like Cars 2.
You might wonder why there are so many “die hard” Cars fans out there, and the answer is simple. Because many people think they are great films, that’s why they like them.
Who do you think the general audience is, exactly?
Because the critics didn’t like it. About half of the “let’s compare every Pixar film to the next and make classifications” group didn’t like it. But when I went to a viewing full of kids, parents, and general non-critic adults, there was laughing and clapping and everybody had a great time.
Who are you seeing as the general audience?
Agreed, both times I went, opening night and a week after, the theaters were packed. The film was met with applause at the end, and 90% of the audience stayed for the credits. I took four of my good friends the first time, and my family the second, and they all loved it.
From what I’ve read on movie review websites and comments, and personally, I think that critics are not cold-hearted who are out looking to thumbs down every film. Critics want to enjoy films, especially Pixar films. As a general film, Cars 2 is probably below average, but comparing it to other Pixar films it is awful. I don’t see what is so bad about comparing Pixar films to one another. It wouldn’t be such a problem if this were an instant classic like Up. I think the real reason why fans want people to view Cars 2 on its own right is because it’s not good enough to be compared to the other fantastic Pixar films (which means it’s a failure on Pixar’s part).
Your cinema session was a contrast to mine - there were a few laughs, but nothing fantastic like the sessions during Up and WALL-E.
Cars 2 has, well, not so much ruined Pixar’s track record (if Pixar figures out what went wrong and they don’t let it happen again), but the film has made us wonder whether more of these films are on the way, and whether people (not Cars fans), can rely on Pixar for a fun AND good movie. The fact is, Cars 2 is critically a bomb (generally speaking, not just cherry picking certain reviewers) on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, and that is a fact. It’s an embarrassment.
It’s funny how when a good Pixar film is released then everyone is all over Rotten Tomatoes, but when it’s a bad film, and it gets bad reviews, the fans say, “oh, they have a vendetta against Cars.” I don’t hate Cars and I don’t even hate Cars 2. I just think it wasn’t up to Pixar’s standard, as a fan, in the state it was released in, and it could have used another year to fine-tune the story, before moving along in the production line. Mater makes for good short films, but an hour and a half of Mater is 1 hour and 25 minutes too long for me.
I have nothing against die-hard Cars fans, myself, as there are pretty enthusiastic fans of a lot of Pixar films. I have a feeling that the die hard fans would have enjoyed any Cars sequels, so perhaps they are not the best judges of whether it is a good film or not.
I’m sorry that I didn’t enjoy Cars 2 as well. Because I really wanted to.
…I never said critics were cold-hearted and looking to be negative.
However, I DO believe that there is an unfair level of bias because it is not what they expected of a Pixar film, and I think every film should be judged on its own merits, not because it fits a studio’s “feel” or doesn’t. If Disney had released this, or - dare I pull this card- if it had been in 2D or at minimum released without 3D and iMAX - I highly doubt the critics would be so up in arms over it.
Heck, they already showed they wouldn’t. A Disney animated film came out recently, was fun, didn’t have deep drama and was made on a pre-existing franchise, and the critics are gushing over it for just being fun and enjoyable, if not perfect. And many are going as far as to defend simple, non-poignant cinema over it.
Disney nor Pixar seems to be looking at Cars 2 as an embarrassment. Lasseter wanted people to have a fun time. Disney wanted to sell toys. They both got what they wanted. If some critics don’t like it, tough. It’s not the end of the world. Especially when the critics are so clearly showing their hypocrisy less than a month later.
Honestly? Seeing how critically, animation has been treated like crud for ages, and pushed into tiny little award categories, and treated like kid fodder, I don’t respect most critics enough to care about their consensus over my personal judgment and how my friends felt with their personal judgment.
Cars 2 wasn’t perfect, but it sure doesn’t deserve all the negative reception it’s getting, and there is clearly some bias in play from the professional critic standpoint, whether you personally enjoyed the film or not.
And, despite that 164 people who are paid to take films apart based on their artsiness had to say on Rotten Tomatoes, plenty of people enjoyed the film, and it continues to get plenty of people to the box office even on the opening weekend of Deathly Hallows.
I guess there are two camps here: one camp feels that Pixar films shouldn’t be compared against other Pixar films and they should be looked at of their own merit and as a general film, and the other camp feels that Pixar films do deserve to be compared against one another.
I suppose if you wanted to do it that way, if I were comparing Cars 2 on its own as a general film, then I’d give it two stars. But if I were rating it with the expectation that it’s a Pixar film (who release films of quality and had a good record up until now), and I will be getting quality, then I’d rate it one star out of five because I expect more from the company, being a fan and all.
But, and I don’t think that some people here are getting this, it’s one thing to compare Pixar films and say which ones you personally feel are better and why. But my argument isn’t about that. My criteria and argument is much simpler. My question is, whether it be any Pixar film, is: does this film live up to the Pixar brand? Does it enhance and strengthen the Pixar brand, or does it take away from it? In my opinion I don’t feel that this film is good enough, nor was it good enough to be released as a Pixar film, and I think that there are other aspects that come into play, such as Lasseter’s role in the company and merchandising, that you may not want realise. Yes, you can say, “If this were a Disney film, you wouldn’t be as harsh!” But it’s not Disney. It’s Pixar. People have expectations from them, and they shouldn’t have set the bar that high if they weren’t confident that they could release films that reached that mark each time (no matter what they film is about or whether it’s a tear-jerker. I don’t care.)
I just think it’s very convenient to dismiss critical reviews and flail your arms about when people are saying that they dislike it, but when the reviews are excellent, you’re cheering.
Of course Disney and Pixar are not going to release a statement that Cars 2 is an embarrassment. That is MY personal opinion that it is for them. It wouldn’t be very good marketing or PR to say that your film isn’t any good. I’m not even sure what that has to do with anything though. This isn’t even about animation or 2D or 3D or IMAX or clay or whatever. I didn’t enjoy this film’s story or the characters or the message (whatever it was). You can have a fun film or action film, but if it doesn’t have a point, then Pixar must be having a different action plan, and good luck to them because it is a bit confusing to me.
So, when it suits you, film critics are paid to pull films apart (like the vultures they are), but when a good film comes out, then lets praise the rotten tomato status because it’s doing really well! I didn’t want to believe rotten tomatoes either, and I went in with an open mind that I was going to enjoy it, but, in my experience, Rotten Tomatoes is pretty much on the mark (if 80% of people recommend it, then it’s 80% of an excellent film).
Having said that, I have no doubt that Brave will be awesome, since JL isn’t directing, and since there isn’t as merch to sell as with Cars 2, the only reason why they could push it through is because it has a strong story, and I’m sure it does.
Of course we’re happy when a film gets good reviews; it means that more people will go to see the movie and it means the film is more likely to win awards down the road. But when a film doesn’t get good reviews, I don’t assume that automatically means it will be a bad film, either.
Yes, I only side with critics when I agree with them. Because as much as I appreciate critics and they can help us look deeper into a movie, what matters the most to me is whether I like the film in question. If critics dislike a film I like, I’m naturally going to dismiss it. I don’t think that makes me a hypocrite: I think that means I think for myself when it comes to the entertainment I enjoy. Does it make a hypocrite to care about a friend’s opinion, but disagree with them when I see something different from them in a situation? Do you stay in a fandom even if its on the quiet side, but rejoice when more people show up? I care about critics because when they like a film I like, I feel less alone. But I’m my own person, and if I am alone in an opinion, its still my opinion.
Nobody is “right” or “wrong” about Cars 2. There is no “right” opinion or “right” critic, and it frustrates me that a lot of the people who dislike the film are insulting the intelligence of people who did. No, we’re not all Pixar’s blind followers. We’re not all Cars diehards. We didn’t all “not get” something the people who disliked it got. We’re people who just happened to have fun at this movie, for whatever reason. If I had to peg a personal reason, I like the characters, and after going through 5 years of depression, I just like some silly laughs without over thinking every once in a while.
You didn’t like it. Great. Awesome. You’re no more or less right than anybody who did like it. As Ding mentioned, it’s subjective. Cars 2 has more merit to it than just a marketing scheme. You don’t need to have a deep, profound reason to dislike something any more than a movie needs a deep, profound reason to be good.
Ok, Netbug, much like other Cars fans, you don’t need to get all defensive when people don’t like the film. This film is more likely to put me into a depression, if you ask me. If you liked it, that’s fine. Like I said many times, that’s great that you like the movie and I’m glad you got something out of it. I wanted to like the film and I didn’t go in there wanting to dislike it, but the fact is that I didn’t enjoy it, and I feel that the reviews that it got were justified, as much as I didn’t want to admit it.
Can you point out where I insulted your intelligence? Or are you projecting your experiences with other people onto me? I don’t think this is the place to victimise yourself as a poor Cars fan. People didn’t like it, so you need to learn to deal with it and take that on board. They, and me, are criticising the film because they care about Pixar and they had high expectations walking into the film. This is a place to also discuss Pixar in general - it is not a fansite where only people that loved the film are allowed to post. And don’t say “and you need to learn to deal with people that do love the film.” Because ever since I posted my thoughts on the film, I’ve had you and Ding jump on me first. If you don’t agree with me, fine. But please don’t make this about yourself because my comments are about the studio and the film, not you.
If you want to ignore the reviews, then ok. But for me, personally, as a Pixar fan, it’s a problem when it is critically not all that successful, and also when I personally didn’t enjoy it. It really isn’t enough for some die hard fans to enjoy the film, because out in the real world, this probably will have an impact on how people view the studio. And I’m not just talking money or box office, because that isn’t the only currency that matters. If this happens again, which I don’t think it will, and I hope it doesn’t because I hope that Pixar will learn from this mistake, then Pixar will not be the reliable company that everyone can rely on for a quality film.
I’m talking about the general “hatedom” towards the movie, not just you. Sorry; I have a tendency to use the term “you” when commenting on a group of people. Didn’t mean to project everything on “you” specifically. ^^;
As for being a bit defensive? I probably am, but it’s getting… kinda hard not to be when the film seems to get bashed constantly. IMO, there’s wayyyyyy too much drama over this movie.
Cars 2 is FINALLY released in the UK this week (yay!), and DigitalSpy, which is the UK’s big showbiz and media news site, has given the film 3/5 
[url]'Cars 2' review
However, without having seen the film but basing on the reviews I’ve read, this line stands out to me:
“Aesthetically Cars 2 is as accomplished as anything the studio has done, but look under the bonnet and the script doesn’t quite have the sophistication to shift into top gear.”