How long was Fungus involved?

[mentalguru]

Was Fungus in on the plan from the beginning?

• Yes
• No
• Not sure

Curious thing I’ve been pondering. I believe it is strongly indicated that fungus is far ‘newer’ to the plan than Randall was. It’s debateable that the whole idea was begun two years prior to movie events (as Roz is undercover that long), and the fact is, this could be considered possible. Either way, it WOULD take alot of time.

The scream extractor isn’t like a vacuum cleaner or even a car or some other device from scratch- it’s brand new, one of a kind with little any past technology to back it up. Little past research and planning before it’s existence to build upon probably. Never even been built before or TESTED at least. Perhaps SOME theory once upon a time long ago, but that’s a bit debateable. It’s also why Boo was needed after all, as a guinea pig to test for safety/efficency (since hurting kids= hurting their energy source. Not a good idea). It was a prototype, the first (and last inevitably) of it’s kind. Forget lesser animation where people build brand new machines in hell… HOURS. That doesn’t happen at all in real life, and Pixar while delving in fantasy also tends to pride itself in being ‘real’ at the same time. It would take many MONTHS to do this kind of thing.

Plus alot of money and connections in order to hide the process, which drives me to my above question because if Fungus was there for MONTHS with Randall on this machine…

WHY would Fungus think it’s RANDALL’S ‘evil plot’? It’s pretty much an established canon fact that employees earn minimum wage, not to mention RANDALL doesn’t seem to have many friends PERIOD let alone in high places!

But we all know it was Waternoose’s idea.

Fungus is a jittery thing, and he doesn’t give any indication he believes he is lying to Mike when he call’s it ‘Randall’s evil plot’.(*)

Why?

Fungus is also NOT stupid. He has his own mechanical abilities. He has stupid moments like when he’s screeching in the bathroom near the CDA (it’s not in HIS best interests to be caught EITHER), but stupid in general? No. He would have eventually figured out after a considerable period that a monster on minimum wage (from the employee handbook) would not be able to fund not to mention not be able to hide something like this in the FACTORY without some higher up.

I am willing to give him a few… WEEKS for not coming to this conclusion, perhaps due to nerves and such… but MONTHS? That would make him INCREDIBLY stupid, and while irritating sometimes and like everyone, even smart people, prone to MOMENTS of stupidity, he is by no means utterly stupid in any way shape or form. He can form a reasonable hypothesis about what might be wrong with the scream extractor (granted he was wrong, still he has indicated intelligence all the same). He has brains in the end.

He’s also not someone that really strikes me all the same as someone Randall or Waternoose would want on the plan by choice either- he squeaks and yelps and is not good at keeping things under wraps at all. Not exactly someone you’d choose AT ALL for illegal activity really! One hypothesis I’ve heard also elsewhere is that Fungus stumbled upon the plan by accident due to bumping into Randall in some form, and in order to make sure his lip buttoned was probably accepted into the plan, since he knew too much already and they might as well make sure he was kept under control in some form, though Waternoose’s involvement was kept under wraps in the hope he’s never find out about that. This makes sense to me. He might eventually have figured out SOME kind of higher up was involved after some time, but not Waternoose necessarily.

So what are your thoughts?

–

(*)This always struck me as a bizarre line in general- who says ‘evil plot’ except as a joke? WAY too stupid if Pixar meant to intend Randall actually said that- they should be above that sort of dumb unrealistic type of character who calls his plans ‘evil plots’ (except of course as a joke). If Fungus meant it as only his own opinion it might make a bit more sense, or as his own joke, then maybe. Plus it kind of says more about Fungus than anyone when he cheers when Randall says he has the kid if he WAS serious though… something a bit wrong there.

[lizardgirl]

You’ve made some very good points there, mentalguru. Personally, I’ve always thought that Fungus was introduced to the ‘evil plot’ well after Randall had begun working on the machine. I have this scene in my head where Randall and Fungus have finished a day working together and Randall goes off to continue with the Scream Extractor, and Fungus is curious as to why he hasn’t seen Randall around during lunchbreaks and that sort of thing so he follows him and accidentally discovers what’s been going on…Just an idea, because, as you said, it’s not as if you’d want to tell Fungus about something secret!

Plus considering how often the two work together, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fungus became very adept at figuring out if something isn’t quite right with Randall- especially as, when things are going wrong, Randall tends to take it out on Fungus.

[pitbulllady]

I doubt that Fungus was in on the plot from its inception, but as far as HOW long he WAS involved is anyone’s guess. It would make sense, though, that once he was let in on it, that he be led into believing that that the idea, if not the actual financing of the thing, was Randall’s-that Randall was simply being “allowed” to do this by someone. Given that there is a very large hierarchy, if you will, in a company of that size, there would still be a lot of “powers-that-be” in between Randall and Waternoose, and even Waternoose himself had to answer to the BOD, as he himself indicates in the movie, so the actual “money man” behind the whole operation could have been anyone of those. I’m sure that part of the agreement to bring Fungus in on the plan included doing whatever it took to insure that the REAL force behind the Scream Extractor, Waternoose, be an absolute secret, even if that meant that Randall had to convince his motor-mouthed assistant that this whole shebang was his plan all along. Fungus probably DID figure out that someone other than Randall was forking out the dough to fund this thing and purchase needed supplies, but that wouldn’t stop him from also thinking that it was Randall’s idea from the get-go, especially since Randall DID design it and produce the blue prints for it, and any questions directed at Randall as to just who else was involved were probably silenced pretty quickly. Most likely, Fungus was brought in on the thing fairly late in the game, once it became apparent that Randall couldn’t complete the actual building and fine-tuning all by himself in the time frame that his boss wanted it done. Most likely the deadline for having it up and running was fast approaching(and you KNOW that Waternoose was NOT about to give Randall an indefinite amount of time to spend on that thing), and the machine still needed a lot, so with Waternoose’s permission, Randall was allowed to bring in his assistant to take advantage of Fungus’s technological skills, under the condition that Randall under NO circumstances let on that Waternoose was involved. You will note that in that scene where Boo is finally in the seat of the machine, Fungus does have that “just what’s going on here” look upon seeing the CEO down there with him and Randall, as though this is the first inkling he’s had that Waternoose was not only involved, but the one pulling the strings.

The problem, of course, would have been keeping Fungus’s mouth shut the whole time, since he isn’t exactly one to play the “quiet game” too well, lol. That could explain some of Randall’s attitude and shortness of patience with the little three-eyed geek; he HAS to use intimidation to force Fungus into keeping quiet about it, and he’s probably promised to give Fungus a cut of HIS reward once the machine is finished…in other words, he’s passing along to HIS subordinate exactly what Waternoose is doing to HIM, i.e., using a combination of promised rewards and threats to maintain control over someone else to ensure that person’s 100% compliance and secrecy.

On the topic of Fungus’s intelligence, he strikes me as being full of what my grandfather would have called “book learnin’”, but with very little practical, good old-fashioned common sense, sorta reminding me of that “Far Side” cartoon where the geeky, brainy kid is trying to enter the “School For The Gifted” by pushing on the door, when there is a sign on the door that distinctly says, “PULL TO OPEN”. It’s therefore not too unreasonable that Fungus actually would not put two and two together and figure out that someone “higher up” must be involved, at least where the finances are concerned. OR, he actually COULD have known that the plot was really Waternoose’s, and he WAS lying to Mike when he said it was “Randall’s evil plot”, having been instructed/threatened into doing so in the event that someone found out about the machine. It would make sense that there was such a “contingency plan” in place should the machine be discovered, and I’m sure that part of that plan would be to make sure the the CEO was not implicated in any way, shape or form, no matter what. I’ve long believed that Waternoose intended for Randall to take the fall for the whole thing in the event that the plot was uncovered, using Randall not only to design, build and test the machine, but also to cover his own butt, while planning to reap all the glory and benefits once the Scream Extractor was officially approved.

pitbulllady

[Nexas]

I agree with Pitbulllady that Fungus wasn’t involved from the start…
Here’s my theory.
For one…it may NOT have taken 2 years fully to build the Scream Extractor. Roz only said that the case took 2 years. AND since WATERNOOSE was the one behind it all, and it SEEMED they were unaware…it wasn’t just him they were intrigued about. And Randall? Well. Roz hardly batted an eye when Randall requested Boo’s door late at night. Since Roz was ALSO involved in the training of Sullivan and Wazowski, along with Randall, the time it would take would mean that the C.D.A. were investigating the foundations of Monsters Inc. itself. Which would mean…perhaps…that something ELSE had peaked interest for the C.D.A. to “keep a watch” on Monsters Inc. Afterall…it was interesting enough that C.D.A. number 1, Roz, became involved headfirst being undercover.
Anyway…Fungus. We all know Ran’s is technically-genius-oriented. And since the Scream Extractor is made from parts within Monsters Inc., the project was secluded from the get-go. And since Ran tries his best, very hard so as we see, to not “spill the beans”, I doubt he himself got Fungus involved. My theory? Fungus got involved accidentally. Perhaps he became curious? Doubt it.
And as we all know, Fungus believed it was Randall’s plot, while in fact it was Waternoose’s. So…Fungus would not have had as much interaction with Waternoose, and would be surprised the CEO was involved. So…what would that mean? Fungus had to be involved in the project with Randall in a more “open window” fashion. For instance, it seems that Fungus works with Randall on the Extractor (at least from what we see), when their Scream-Collecting shift is over (or more presumably during lunch). This would limit that Fungus works less on it than Randall does. And since the CEO wouldn’t “grace the lab” with his prescence often, Fungus hardly gets time to wonder “what’s the CEO’s pull in this?”.

[pitbulllady]

Nexas- But that still wouldn’t explain HOW Fungus got involved in the first place. There’s only three possibilities here: one, Randall realized that he couldn’t pull this off alone and asked Waternoose to allow him to bring Fungus in, knowing that while Fungus was a motor-mouth, he also was tech-savvy. Two, WATERNOOSE realized that Randall couldn’t complete the project in time without help, and told him to bring Fungus in, or three, Fungus got nosey and did some prying and found out that Randall was building this machine, and either Randall then put him to work on it OR Fungus actually ASKED to be involved. In any case, Fungus certainly didn’t seem to have any reservations at all about what he was doing, no guilt whatsoever, as evidenced by his reaction when Randall hauls that box-disguised-as-Scream-canisters into the refinery and proclaims, “I GOT the kid!” I really do not believe that Fungus’s reaction at that point was staged. He BELIEVED that what they were doing was right, just as much as Randall did.

I do agree that his involvement probably came rather late in the game, and was fairly limited, since it would be Fungus who would have to handle the paperwork from the regular Scare Floor workday after Randall had left the Scare Floor to go work on the machine. Everyone else would simply think that Randall had gone home for the evening, leaving his assistant to handle the paperwork, which was part of that job, and no one would suspect that Randall was still in the building, still hard at work. As for the time frame on building that machine, it probably DID take every bit of two years, considering that for the most part, only ONE guy was working on it, and HE had to work a regular nine-to-five shift in addition. Just the planning stage, on paper or on computer, would have taken months. Roz only indicated that she and the CDA had been aware of something going on in the factory for two years, but the planning aspect of the plot probably went back further than that. That does bring up another question, though: WHAT exactly tipped off the CDA that something was going on? The CDA was primariy concerned with human children and their “contaminants” entering the Monster World, so someone HAD to have tipped them off, two years prior to the movie’s events, that someone was either bringing or planning to bring human children into the factory, for whatever reasons. Either that, or they were just naturally suspicious that someone would get careless in that factory, given the fact that it contained active portals into the Human World, and decided to stake it out.

pitbulllady

EDIT- There’s no need to quote an entire post directly above your own, just referring to the person’s username who you’re replying to is fine, thanks!

-lizardgirl

[Nexas]

Sometimes to know HOW, you need to know the WHY.
It seemed Waternoose had no holds against getting rid of Randall after the Scream Extractor, as we see, no liking between them…but…Waternoose seems just ignore Fungus COMPLETELY. What would this entail? Lets look at the possibilities you show.

1. I doubt Randall would get anybody else involved. No…not as a matter of pride…but by the time he would see that the endeavor was too much alone for him, he would have KNOWN about Waternoose’s dark side. Despite anything people say about Randall, he wouldn’t intentionally put somebody he knew in a situation where a part of him suspected he himself might “be sleeping with the fishes with cement shoes” at the end. Grant, however, that Randall was also much more clear headed closer to the start of the project, so his actual self disliked endangering people (we see this in the film actually with him and, of all people, Wazowski).
2. I have some doubts Waternoose would have Fungus come in. But then it’s a debate of “I want this done ASAP!” between “Few involved as possible”. Alright, Waternoose might have allowed Fungus in to get the project done as quick as possible…
3. In all honesty…I doubt Fungus gave a crap about what Randall actually did in his spare time. However…out of all the possibilities, I like this one the best. Of course that begs to question if Fungus walked in on Randall alone, or on both him and Waternoose. Which makes it interesting because…Waternooses intended Randall to take the blame if anything went wrong…and to avoid Fungus from getting himself whacked, Randall stated the project was his, “funded” by Waternoose.

Which goes along with what I said about Fungus mostly involving himself in the project during lunch hour…while Ran did it then, late at night, and on weekends.
Of course…that depends Pitbulllady chuckles If it was Randall at all who actually came up with the design. blinks Remember…this was Waternoose’s plan…at least that’s as far up as the C.D.A. believed hm hm.
chuckles IS a question to BEG isn’t it? Two years prior, Randall was Top Scarer. Perhaps even so he was in his Trainer-Loan to train Sullivan and Wazowski on Scare Island. Waternoose does go there for orientation and for award ceremonies, but other than that he’s not so involved. So that means that something perhaps went on when Randall, Sullivan, and Wazowski were ALL away from Monsters Inc. Of course, like I said, Roz was also part of the training staff, though…ironically for the orientation, one of the times Waternoose is present.
Funny isn’t it? Perhaps Henry ain’t the only bad boy crap now is he? Hm hm.

[mentalguru]

All very interesting (and a good point about book sense vs common sense)… I think it’s really in the end, Fungus is NOT someone you’d want involved when you’re doing something technically illegal really. The only thing he’s got GOING for him is that he has mechanical ability, but that’s not enough for Randall (or Waternoose) to have had him there from the beginning!

It’s possible it’s even a COMBINATION of the two ideas- that Fungus found out by accident/ was brought in due to time constraints perhaps, we can only speculate after all. But it just wouldn’t make a lot of sense to me if Fungus was there in the beginning to me!

Possibly as time went on Waternoose was putting more pressure on Randall, the deadline was getting closer and closer (because as PBL mentioned, Randall wouldn’t be given all the time in the world to complete it at all) and he became even more agitated. Whether from curiosity or by pure accident, Fungus FOUND OUT, because in his increased agitated state, Randall accidently let on or was not careful enough- just one mistake and ‘‘BAM!’’ Fungus now knew.

In the end perhaps because of his mechanical abilities, Randall became convinced of the idea of making ‘lemons out of lemonade’- the best of a bad situation. He cut Fungus in on a part of HIS cut among other things.

The problem is, lemons don’t usually have a security risk attached like Fungus does do they?

Nor are they usually as irritating (unless you get juice in a cut or your eye).

Possibly the lemons were more sour than previously thought and there’s probably a part of Randall that even wished that instead he used the saying “When life throws you lemons… THROW THEM BACK!” even though he really couldn’t do that in reality.

It was probably in the end more of a risk NOT to let him in than letting him in in the end, but it is rather doubtful this conclusion would be drawn when the plan really began.

Randall was definitly the one Waternoose ‘approached’, probably with a carrot with perhaps barely a hint of the stick behind his back… however probably after some time of showing him the ‘stick’ Fungus eventually came onto the picture. How he came into the picture is anyone’s guess- but it seems clear Fungus had no idea about Waternoose or all of the plan- though he might have still suspected Randall was at least FUNDED by some higher up either way, even though he (wrongly) showed he thought that it was Randall’s when it wasn’t. It didn’t SEEM like he believed he was lying either… of course that’s anyone’s guess.

[Nexas]

Exactly. And anybody who would think of Fungus being Randall’s friend…well…lets just say Fungus, if he is consider his friend, is the type of friend involved in that “hell is being locked in a room with your friends” kind of thing.

Of course, perhaps it wasn’t just Randall who was being given a deadline hm hm.