Justice League/Justice League Unlimited

Perhaps one of my favourite cartoon shows of all time. This show had my favourite incarnation of Superman, and I loved the dynamic he and Batman had. I also enjoyed pretty much all the characters in their own way, and loved the grey themes as well- like the fact Cadmus was formed because they feared the super heroes and what they could do to them.

My favourite protaganist was probably a tie in with all the main seven as well as Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, The Question and Vixen. There were also great characters introduced to me in the episode “Patriot” for characters without powers when I was first watching episodes out of order.

My favourite antagonist was probably Amanda Waller, even if I didn’t care for her ending, it didn’t ruin her as a character to me. She’s always been pretty interesting I think, from what we’ve seen of her. She definitely seems like someone who has had to fight a lot to get to where she is. I also liked the fact one of Superman’s old friends a scientist joined her side because superman scared him.

Overall this show showed us wonderful things. Heroes had consequences to their actions, or at the very least they weren’t skated over or hand waved. Sometimes things were grey. Just like real life. And people who were scared of them were very understandable in their own way.

This show was also canon along with Batman: The Animated Series as well as the Superman version (though while I’d put the Batman version on equal running, Superman is just more enjoyable when he has to work with other heroes rather than just himself IMO).

So thoughts on this show?

Oh man, of every show that ever made it on Cartoon Network, the Justice League was by far one of their best. I loved the series, the characters, everything about it. It’s a shame that it’s not running anymore. I don’t even like the “Young Justice” replacement.



high five Rac_Rules. I love Huntress. And I think question is cool too.

Thanks. :slight_smile: Yeah, I tried to watch Young Justice (I even have an issue of the comic), but I couldn’t get into it. I was a little turned off by how they portrayed Superman, who I adore and wish people would stop turning into a jerk just to make the other heroes look better.

I love the concept of Young Justice. I just think that it just isn’t the same as Justice League.

Yeah, I love the concept of YJ too. Its like Teen Titans but with the heroes actually allowed to interact with their bosses. However, I just couldn’t get attached to it. Oh, the other thing that ticked me off: teasing me with Tim Drake’s Robin costume, thinking that my favorite Robin could finally get some attention outside of The New Batman/Superman Adventures, but having it actually be Dick Grayson. Heck, I love Dick, but GEEZE people, Tim is the one who’s friends with Kon (they’re like one of the most slashed pair of characters I’ve ever seen). And wouldn’t it have been cool have Nightwing for Robin’s brotherly mentor?

Anywho, my favorite JL/JLU character? I think TSS can tell you that. :wink: 8D [spoil]Hint: Did you know the Girl Scouts caused the crop circle phenomenon?[/spoil]

Favorite villain? Hm, I’d have to say Lex Luthor. I think they did a whole lot of cool stuff with him, really using him to his full potential in a shorter amount of time than the comics did. The president/CADMUS/cancer/Brainiac plot was amazing.

Favorite episode is between For the Man Who Has Everything (incredible. Just amazing) and Double Date. Also love Question Authority.

My favorite JL/JLU characters include SuperMan, Super Girl, Wonder Woman, Huntress, Green Arrow, and Green Lantern.

I don’t have a favorite villain, but as for episodes, I have a lot of favorites. i can’t even name a favorite because I have like ten on the top spot.

I rememebr it, ddin’t watch much Unlimited though, I remember they did crossover’s with Static Shock.

I too loved the JL and JLU. And I realize that the odds of DC creating a great live action movie with all those characters would be a long shot. I wish pixar would spin off an arm of the company that worked with people at DC like Timm Bruce. They could create a great Justice League Movie in the style of the Incredibles with the writing of Batman: The Animated Series. You could get 4 or 5 great JL Movies, not to mention all the spin-offs. Instead of having to reboot every few years because the actor is tired of being Batman or Superman, it could have a longer run with a consistent character. No one takes the DC stuff coming out direct to video seriously. I really liked “Batman: Year One” and “Justice League Doom”, but no one has seen them, but everyone saw Toy Story 3. I can’t wait to see the Avenger Movie, my guess is that it will be huge, but even they have a new actor playing the Hulk. How long till they loose the other actors to age or other projects, and then have to reboot. Have Pixar create these iconic characters digitally, and then they can have a good long run with them.

I have to admit, I really wanted to hate this show. But my brother got the DVDs for Christmas, and I love it. It’s not as good as Batman: The Animated Series(is anything as good? Is that possible?) but it is quite entertaining. Plus, anywhere there is Kevin Conroy, I’m interested. 8D <3 I think this is the show. I saw one episode where Diana/Wonderwoman got buried in rocks, and Batman had a spaz attack and dug her out. It was adorable!! <3 8D

Why did you want to hate this show, Virginia?

I really have a tendency to want to dislike anything with Superman in it. But I like him in this show; I like how he interacts with Batman.

Awww…I love Superman. :slight_smile: He can be really annoying when written badly but when written well I think he’s awesome.

I guess I just don’t like how general he is. I prefer Batman’s well defined personality and all his internal torture. I like Superman, I just prefer characters with more depth. I like him a lot in this show, though. He feels more developed.

I think the problem with Superman is that for some writers he’s difficult to get right. He has so many powers, even invulnerability and his only weakness in terms of his powers are a variety of coloured rocks and the odd villian who can match him for strength or are near invulnerable. It can either be that they make him too perfect (as in the Gary Stu, perhaps even preaching why he is right) or if they don’t like him, can turn him into well… something that is hard to like at all and kind of a jerk.

In the end Superman is generally considered to be the idealised version of an American. And this changes as America’s overall view on this changes. However whose to say this idealised vision can’t have flaws? And after all, everyone has a different view as to what perfection is, to the level it could be said that it doesn’t exist.

What is justice and fair to Superman could be too strict or too lax to completely different people, depending on who you ask in hypothetical X situation, and if he existed in real life you just know there would be people in the media giving him grief too. Superman is also seen as the one the media in the DC universe looks to most of all. The #1 hero, and probably the first hero they’d think of not counting whatever resident hero is there (Batman for Gotham etc.). This can produce a unique kind of pressure even most heroes wouldn’t get. He MUST be perfect. He MUST be good and pure. And he has to hold back or else he’d probably break someone’s neck with his little finger. And other heroes look up to him too.

But perfection does not exist and he can’t really give it.

And for just a general character some virtues or talents can be also a failing or even a weakness. For instance the concept of lying:

If someone is GOOD at it, they can perhaps get out of certain situations and be important sometimes in even saving a life, but upon having this talent found out this makes it difficult for him/her to be trusted by perhaps even allies and loved ones. Plus of course there are ethical questions involved. Sometimes a white lie or a big one is needed, but you’ve got to know where to stop, and it’s possible for trust in general to be shattered. Those who are bad liars and/or engage in full frontal honesty? While they are more trustworthy perhaps well, as stated, there could be a life or death situation where you HAVE to lie. Or at least bend the truth. The refusal to do this or inability to do so can result in bad things. Even result in someone losing their life.

Basically Superman is in general a good person, and writing should reflect that. That he tries his best to make that good and ethical choice. But there are some things his powers can’t fix. He can’t bring people back to the dead, sometimes there’s a time limit on making the ‘right’ decision even super speed can’t help with, and even in some ways he’s a danger (like one of those pretty rocks making him go insane or simply an enemy engaging in mind control). However without this even in the end an interesting thing in throwing a wrench into the works is making it HARD to identify what is right or wrong and to throw the guy into morally ambiguous situations where there are perhaps good arguments or understandable consequences to the road he takes. Life isn’t a simple choice of good or evil for the most part. The hardest part in the batlle of ‘good and evil’ if we’re to use those terms at all can be identifying which is which! And many decisions can be a constant weighing of the two and the long-term and short-term impacts.

Also Superman can’t see into the future, so some impacts might not even be considered until they happen.

It brings questions like whether he should just kill Lex Luthor- because the guy is constantly getting away with it, and it’s something he did in an AU in JLU too. With consequences. Resulting in all of the JLU going too far and becoming the Justice Lords. Also in genearl killing villians asks questions like: where does it stop, when do they know when to stop? And who watches the watchmen? As it were.

In the end the JLU Superman still had the desire to do good as well as his own personal feelings. He wasn’t made of stone and he could be gotten to if not physically, emotionally. Batman mentioning how he’d been humiliated for instance and turned loose on people clouded his judgement in certain matters. He also could let his own paranoia rule him when it came to Luthor (which was paranoia that was pretty understandable and even true to an extent). He can snap and get angry, and even good people can especially when scared of what could happen. Superman is more emotional and open than Batman. This makes him more approachable for some. He therefore wouldn’t get upset if he didn’t care, but getting upset can also lead to the wrong decision. And JLU built up him cracking over a good long time with Luthor and Cadmus, it didn’t feel like it came out of the left field like how sometimes people try to with suddenly!jerk!preachy!Superman, trying to take him down a peg. And people were genuinely scared of him and the rest of JLU making for some great antagonists, especially in the case of my favourite DC antagonist of all time Amanda Waller and certain other Cadmus characters. She was understandable as well as utterly awesome without superpowers.

It’s understandable in JLU for Superman to be angry and upset and paranoid considering what he faces just as it is for Amanda Waller to join Cadmus and be willing to deal with Luthor in order to able to watch the Justice League, knowing what she knows and seeing what she’s seen.

Just make Superman a regular person with many powers trying to do the right thing with the stress of being ‘perfect’ and sometimes having to make morally complicated decisions and they’re probably onto a winner like with JLU Superman. Make things go wrong, make it turn out he made the wrong decision sometimes. Make him angry and pranoid about what might go wrong because he cares about doing the right thing, but make that anger also at times be a weakness.

JLU is definitely my favourite incarnation of him and I’ve yet to find one as good and relateable in all honesty.

And that right there is what ticks me off about post-reboot!Superman. By taking away his human parents and marriage, he is about as generic as you can get with superheroes. Dead parents, angst, feels different, no one to turn to, pining for their love interest but can’t achieve them. His family life and marriage very much made him, like you said, a normal, patriotic American who wants to do the right thing and finds stress trying to be so very perfect, also making him different and interesting. Now he’s a less-interesting Batman with powers, and I’m mad.

Anyone who doesn’t like Superman, or wants to see an absolutely perfectly written version of him, needs to read All Star Superman by Grant Morrison. My favorite comic of all time, the only one to have brought me to near tears and doesn’t need knowledge of any continuity to read. Seriously, GET IT NOW.

Anyway, more on JLA/JLU. My love for the Question still stands (WHY, DC? You has this whole major reboot and you DON’T BRING BACK VIC SAGE? I may have even forgiven you for ending the Clark/Lois marriage if you did!..[size=50]maybe[/size]) and he and Huntress are by far my favorite ship. Just, ah, so funny and weird and kinda hot in its own, totally awesome way.

You guys bring up interesting points. And I will try to check up on that comic. MG, this show is my favorite Superman as well.

Who were your guy’s favorite character’s? Mine was either Batman or The Flash. I liked them for their humor.

Batman, Wonderwoman, Flash. In that order.

how come there isn’t a live action JL movie, like the Avengers? They should make one.