Monsters Inc 2 : Randall's role/thoughts?

It’s going to be nearly a decade since the original piece, has to at least be something for those who have followed it since then.

Personally, the many drop hints of Randall’s portrayal lead me to think of a lower number. There’s just too many occurrences and audience-brought-inaccuracies for it to be completely unintended.

Of course the fact that many DO sympathize with Randall is something that HAS happened. It’s occurred, that’s fact. Maybe it was unintended, maybe the spark was put there, but regardless it happened. And now that a sequel has been decided, it can’t be ignored.
Many of us have stated fact bases that maybe even those at Pixar hadn’t even considered. Perhaps they’ve noticed this, and is what drives them to make a sequel.
chuckles, shakes head It would be ego-inspiring to say…but I feel to say it…wouldn’t it be interesting if all those little facts, all the little speculations, all the discoveries that have been made in these 10 years so far that we’ve talked and discussed…is the reason for the sequel? That we are the reason it’s being made? chuckles Hopeful thought, but in the words of the guy in Amadeus…“Well, there it is”.

I totally see what you’re saying here. I always have problems understanding why people defend certain characters, especially villains(most of the time, of course.)
That’s a reason why I seriously consider it unlikely that they’ll put Randall in the new movie, because though he has a fairly large fan base, it would be alienating their biggest fanbase(forgive me), kids. I think that for 12 year olds who remember the movie from 2001 would feel really weird if they were expected to connect to Randall, after “everything he did”.

Pixar has many adult fans, and obviously a lot of the ones here want closure for Randall. But, they still have to make money off of the money. Film studios like PIXAR can’t live off adults and critics alone, but of the opinions of GASP small kids, too.

Of course, it’s the adults the spend the money chuckles

My math may be incorrect, but I don’t think there’s a Pixar film to date that did not break even and more in terms of finances. And I doubt M.I. 2, with Randall in it, would hurt it at the box-office.
Personally, I don’t think they need to worry about making money on this.

But, whether we as animation/PIXAR fans like it or not, 90% of the adult population that actually pays to see animated features in cinema have small children. Fact, not opinion.

Well unsure if that’s actually fact…but I’m just going to say that it is because it’s true enough.
A kid who sees the trailer for an animated feature will most likely ask their parents to go and see it. And given the economy these days, people like escaping into films just like the Romans did with the Coliseum.

Okay. I’m done arguing my point, because I just haven’t read enough books to argue with adults who have already been through/are in college. I just can’t argue with that.

Your point’s a valid one. My last post was in agreement with you.

And no, I’m not old in age, am in experiences. Heh heh…find it interesting I’m thought of as college material…

The only books I read are adventures and fantasies…I like the worlds…the creativity…

Oh, okay. I misread. Sorry(I have that problem all the time on the TS forum :angry: ).

Well, you’re smart, so I assumed you were 25 or older. Sorry again. :laughing:

Yeah…you do do that. Just take a breath and observe the words a little more before making a post. In terms of Randall fans, don’t think the worst of each of us at the start and think we’re always against everything else…
But anyways, it’s ok.

grins 25 huh? Same age as Randall was, and he’s even smarter heh.
And thanks for calling me that…it does mean something for me.

Maybe you should read slower if you’re going to ague with the people agreeing with you. :laughing:

I took this to mean “people will see any fantasy movie to escape real life” because I’m stupid.

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic when you say you’re stupid.

Sgt…hmm…uhh yes hopefully she was.

But yes, like I said, most people like escapes from the world because it’s…well for most has become rather hard. Hence why movies, books, and video games have become popular…
Look at the Twilight series…no. NO discussion on THAT here heh :laughing: Just saying, something that had become very popular and people have it as an escape. It’s not a bad thing at all.

Oh IVG, you’re far from stupid.

But yeah, people do use fantasy to escape life sometimes, as long as it doesn’t take over completely it’s okay though. But it can produce a welcome break that we all need sometimes. This not only counts in watching or reading or hearing them but also making them too.

Life has always been hard in some way, sure some people have it easier than others but if you live long enough, people will never prevent themselves from having the feeling of hardship or loss at least once, of feeling like either an outsider or someone who doesn’t understand what is going on. And stories as well as being an escape, sometimes help people make sense of real life at times too whether they’re fictional or not.

I think with re: Randall, it may have been a mistake what they did or we took from it (but Docter… well like I said talent- but doesn’t think of extrapolations very well, with kids things have to be simple, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t make sense. A lot of problems come from what you can think on later.). But like I said it would be excellent if they ran with the possibilities the mistakes in of themselves present. Sometimes things can happen as you create a story, as you write characters and new ideas can take hold. I think Docter, while only having two Pixar films has demonstrated this ability of littering of various mistakes here and there which actually mean a lot in the big scheme of things. He messes up. Now no-one is perfect, or story for that matter, but it seems to be a particular issue I have in his mistakes. Great imagination and his friendships between Sulley and Boo, and relationships like Carl and Ellie are heartwarming, but he can seriously mess up by throwing jokes and various lines and ideas in which really actually say more than he wanted to. Or can kind of throw people at least.

I think it is possible to redeem Randall, taking into account his previously shown personality to kids, even without showing them the (almost essay length) extra extapolations on the basis of behaviour and world building issues which can be brought to light before seeing the sequel, but it just seems unlikely to me they’ll go down that route somehow unfortunatly. There’s still a chancem but not a very large one. And while I don’t approve on the basis in which revenge is often shown in Western culture, it IS a product of our culture- there are people who want to see Randall hit, hurt etc. for what he’s done. Revenge itself isn’t pretty, but if you’ve lived long enough you’ve felt the desire for it, even if in most cases you never go and carry it out. In media, it’s probably living vicaciously these emotions and desires- things we’ll never do in real life for various reasons.

In acts of revenge on this level you don’t really view the other person as a ‘human being’ so to speak with their own thoughts and feelings or reasons. It’s being caught up in our own desires and seeing the person as ‘deserving’ it. It is part of our natural selfish desires into play. Admitting mistakes is also difficult and a painful exprience but necessary, and no-one here is free of that. But still such things are hard to do or admit to. (Though even in the case of Randall being pure evil, it wasn’t Sulley’s call to make).

But to be honest I do feel that regardless, I will continually bugged if Sulley doesn’t display the slightest hint of doubt over it at all. Even in the case of Randall not being redeemed, it really wasn’t his call to make, and Sulley as we’ve seen in the original movie, blames himself pretty easily when he lets Boo in and feels guilt fairly easily. He doesn’t have as big a problem admitting to himself he’s made a mistake, though I could see himself mentally tripping himself with regards Randall, thinking he only missed Boo.

With regards to little kids being the “core” Pixar audience(which has NOT been established as “fact”, actually…otherwise this site would not exist), it is even MORE important for those audience members to see a “bad” character redeemed. Children NEED to learn that people are not always cut-and-dried “good” or “bad”, and that doing something to get even with another person is NOT the way to solve problems and in reality, it does NOT make you a “hero” or result in rewards, but rather, often brings down more problems on you than you had from the person you “got even with”. In other words, Sulley’s actions should carry some negative consequences. Kids need to see that this is not the way to go, when it comes to solving conflicts with other people. They should also see that it IS possible for people to change. Many times, kids themselves get labeled “good” or “bad”, and find themselves “stuck” in that labeling, and feel that once they are “stuck”, they might as well just live up to their label. If they believe that they are “bad”, they figure they might as well just do bad things, since there’s no way to escape that, and at the same time, I often see kids who’ve been told, “you’re good, so everything you do is good”, and basically they believe that they are incapable of doing anything wrong. They therefore don’t take responsibility for their own actions when they do inevitably make mistakes. Kids absolutely NEED to see that beating someone up is NOT the way to solve your problems nor is it the way to get over being afraid of them, and the sequel would be a good opportunity for Pixar to right those wrongs in the first movie. If anyone here actually believes that doing something bad to a person to get back at them for something they did to you actually solves problems and is a good thing, show me the proof, because I can certainly show you plenty of examples why it does NOT work and is NOT a good thing!

pitbulllady

I don’t understand what you mean. I didn’t mean to cause a big discussion, I just don’t get a lot of things, particularly emotional and psychological things, which is mostly what’s discussed on the MI forum. It makes me feel like I don’t deserve to be here, because I’m not good at understanding emotions. If someone does something wrong, I feel that they should be punished, no discussion. My mom says that Asperger’s does that, but I just don’t get why I can understand “hard” English and Biology classes, but if someone dies, I don’t get upset. I feel good, because they’re not sick/in pain anymore.

And I totally get what you guys are saying about seeing films and taking advantage of other media for an “escape”. Personally, I don’t like reality. I’d much rather watch Star Wars(not the prequels :open_mouth: ) than things like the Bucket List or Precious.

Of course, people WANTING to see Randall hurt hit, whatever…after what he’s done…well I can’t say I agree…
Taking into an account the first film ends in a year and we DON’T see Randall, one could think he’s still in the human world. Given what he went through on his arrival…he could have experienced even more than that. Isn’t THAT enough? Guy made a mistake, a bunch of mistakes. Yet everyone else getting off scott-free (Waternoose MIGHT given his position and league of lawyers), and him getting the sack is just…
Well I just don’t agree with him going through the same thing again if he’s already been dealt a punishment he shouldn’t have in the first place…

Hmm…Asperger’s huh?
Well to each their own in terms of opinion.
Justice…punishment…reward…it’s all a confused mess that varying ideas have conflicted against, and it becomes even more corrosive depending on who the target is. A black man years ago would be lynched for even being near a white woman, and most felt justified in doing so. These days, it’s not as common place and drastically discouraged. As time goes on, the realization of what is considered “right and wrong” changes. It distorts, becoming more and more unclear.
Personally one of my cat’s died hours before he could have be saved, and I did not feel any better. I felt that little feline was cheated out of his life. He was young, didn’t deserve to die because of some unique infection. He wasn’t a bad cat, he was young, and he was my brother’s, a marine in the U.S. military.

Ahh I agree…seen the Bucket List and the original Star Wars. Yes and if I had to choose, I would pick the later. The Bucket List is a good film, but like some can pull at your own morality and make you think of your own future or your own life at that time.

Oh I don’t disagree that he didn’t deserve that (and once again it wasn’t Sulley’s call to make in any case), but the fact remains there would be many people who feel they did want him hurt etc. Revenge in media can either be a) turned into ‘justice’ depending who does it. or b) turned i nto something only 2D villians do. It’s not really either. But in the formers case it is playing on a lot of peoples desires re:revenge in general. After all, people do get away with bad things and don’t face courts all the time (or even when they do get away with it/don’t get a harsh sentence). People get away with stuff. So there’s a certain desire for vigilantism often in fiction. It’s partially why super (or otherwise) hero stories are so popular.

Of course granted some do this better than others I feel (for instance Batman never kills- not even people like the Joker, though people and fellow batman nerds have argued he should, but the fact is the problem isn’t BATMAN’s fault but Gotham’s legal department for making it so easy for the guy to bust out that his crime continues- it’s not Batman’s place to make that decision and it’s dicy enough he beats them up and wraps them up as a present for the legal department to deal with. But killing people would take it and himself to a place he doesn’t want to go and he fears that he wouldn’t be able to control himself in such a situation. The Red Hood demonstrates this excellently and I suggest either watching or reading the animated feature/comic.).

Now Randall is no Joker but Randall- let’s face it- tried to kill the protaganists and wasn’t cut up about doing so; not to mention tried to experiment on Boo. (Possibly in fact peoples largest issue, forgetting that until then it had been more or less established humans only have the sentience level of puppies in Monster’s eyes given how Sulley and Mike treated her in the beginning)

Now of course in any event it can be taken as a good deal complicated than that, and Randall certainly isn’t “evil for the sake of evil” (plus humans were viewed as animals in any case) and there can be various things put into play, but to someone unfamilar with human behaviour and world building etc. and taking things at face value and forgets that how humans are viewed are not the same as how human kids are viewed here- What does it look like really? The story comes from the protaganistical view and their view on things is considered having the most weight. Plus the idea of humans being seen as animals, rather than an issue which likely resulted in such a thing being accepted by Randall more easily, he perhaps looks like the most evil person to reside the planet, It isn’t the truth, since once again- humans have never been viewed as true sentient beings at all. But at face value, just that scene alone as Boo is about to be tested on? Yes. If nothing else was taken into account and we were just shown that scene, the scene which sticks out in a lot of peoples heads, Randall is not in a good light at all. They’re not thinking on some of the other issues and things seen or sutilties. What’s happening is one sentient creature testing on a human kid (and it really is), but they are also forgetting that monsters didn’t take that view with humans at all so from Randall’s persepctive it’s more like someone testing on an animal. And after all, really hurting the test subjects would be detrimental to his interests- it would damage their resource. Waternoose wouldn’t want this either. But this is never directly stated, so people forget.

It’s kind of unfair to expect any character to have the same knowledge as a viewer, but it happens. (I mean Katara suffered a lot of backlash in fandom when she wasn’t instantly trusting of Zuko in Avatar: TLA in S3, when the fact was it made perfect sense in her persepective- she’d seen someone she deeply care about almost die and she blamed herself fro trusting Zuko that it happened. So she instigated a death threat against him if he stuck a toe out of line or made her think he’d hurt Aang.)

They’d want to see (Randall) hurt for various reasons on the basis of what he did and what is felt he (should) know, but really on the basis in the movie, he really couldn’t know, since he’s not say a viewer or an omnipresent god. A part of many people would desire that to be seen however because a part of people feels that he ‘does’ or ‘should’ know subconciously speaking and maybe even the creators forgot this. True a fair few may change their minds when it actually happens (I did), though my first viewing my distaste was more so from Sulley being the one doing it and as much as I disliked Randall then, it seemed ‘off’ in general.

Once again even if those ‘mistakes’ of Docters didn’t exist (or the things he didn’t think about but stuck in there), it STILL doesn’t reflect well on Sulley anyway, but regardless, many people in living vivcaciously through their desires would and did want to see him hurt in some form. Hence how revenge can be shown in Western media as desirable or good if the designated hero does it.

Doesn’t make it right, but both media and public desires both feed into each other a lot backwards and forwards.

Plus with the whole african american deal, I would hesitate to compare it to that. The idea of stereotyping in Randall’s case is more based on the medias perceptions of certain animals than people even though as a fictional character Randall is a person too. (And of course people and animal perceptions while both having to be gone up against- people prejudice is what’s by far, more important). Plus even in the case of (in-universe) racism ideas- Sulley did it on the basis of what Randall DID, not what he IS. Sulley did not do it because he has fur and Randall scales. He didn’t even get pushed into doling out a harsher punishment in that area. If Randall had been furry like him and behaved the same way, it wouldn’t have changed anything for Sulley. It doesn’t make what happened right but he’s certainly not a racist in any way, shape or form. There’s more of an argument for Mike in that area (if once again racism does exist at all in their world), but nothing in Sulley’s case to suggest that really. It’s not really a fit means of comparison- plus Randall hardly did anything as small as simply stand near someone in the first place either. So I’m afraid the example in of itself is flawed.

Honestly, I don’t “hate” Randall anymore. I have similar feelings for him to Syndrome now. Not my favorite, but I hold no resentment. I wish I could respond to every point you guys make, but you just make so many per post. :laughing: I have to focus on a limited number of things at any given time or I get them all confused.

And I can see what you mean by comparing Randall’s treatment to lynchings. I took it more as simply what’s acceptable more than saying Sulley was racist(which I would never believe anyway. He’s the main reason I even enjoy watching MI.)

I have a similar problem to the hicks in the trailer at the end of the movie. I do tend to take things at face value, as opposed to searching for motives or other meanings(you know what I’m talking about). I don’t kill things, especially animals. I wouldn’t. But I mean mostly with people and tolerating people, which probably lead to Sulley’s punishment to Randall almost as much as Boo did. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to tolerate someone like Randall, always picking on my friends(or friend, in Sulley’s case) and I. I’ve dealt with a lot of people like Randall, and I guess, like a lot of characters in PIXAR’s films, it’s the similarity to people I know that causes me to love or hate them. I’ve gotten past my little Randall complex, though I never “hated” him, just found him incredibly annoying, like a lot of people may find Mike. I honestly like Randall a lot better after being on this forum so much, but I’d probably always side with Sulley. What he did was “wrong” relatively speaking, but the movie’s nearly 10 years old!! We can’t fix it by bickering over whether Randall got what he deserved or ignoring eachother’s opinions.

I’m tired of a certain member treating me like an idiot simply because my opinion was “wrong”, and that’s why I avoided the MI sector for a while.
I will not feel like an idiot anymore, because arguing unintellegently with people on the internet is the biggest, stupidest waste of time I can conceive. If you disagree with me, fine . Whatever. But I do not have to defend my feelings against you, and I won’t anymore.

I disagree about the cut up bit. I’ve already mentioned why…

grins Then apparently one could say that if the largest portion of people in the world always take things at face value, it’s a good explanation to why the world is so messed up chuckles


Syndrome is a similar person in some regards…a difference however one would feel is that we actually see Syndrome, no, Buddy Pine…as a kid. See him so different, see the CAUSE for his transformation into Syndrome
chuckles Yeah allot gets discussed here…so…philosophical…can’t reply to every little thing heh.

prods head I’m not saying Sullivan’s a racist, he’s not. Wazowski probably is but uhh…

Personally, Randall himself is probably tired of it…coughs Anyways…the fact that the sequel is now confirmed (despite everybody’s previous now-proved-theories that it would come)…well…the thoughts come up. I mean if these discussions weren’t around than most people may not remember M.I.

Hmm…