My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic

The Common Room Other Animation
#381

Interesting thoughts, mentalguru. I personally have been bullied before too (for being weak and innocent about a lot of things in my teens), and I have written about it at length in a post somewhere which I am too lazy to hunt down. I was not really offended by Derpy’s portrayal, though - [spoiler]Rainbow was a little condescending towards Derpy, but this was probably after she caused a lot of problems for her by ruining most of Town Hall. I do agree though that Derpy shouldn’t be so clumsy on purpose, maybe something like Mr Bean or Johnny English (both incidentally, the great Rowan Atkinson’s creations) where the character tries to fix things, but winds up in increasingly sticky situations, either through their incompetence or luck (both forgivable), not insensitivity. Here, it felt like she was totally oblivious of her klutziness and not the least bit sorry, kind of like how Mater was during the Tokyo dinner party in Cars 2.

It would’ve been a much stronger characterisation if she was more apologetic (perhaps like Fluttershy) and offered to help fix Town Hall on her own (which would’ve garnered audience sympathy) or revealed to have competed in the rodeo and won the money for Ponyville (like in this comic). I also didn’t like Tabitha’s voice, I personally would’ve preferred BaldDumboRat, who herself was probably inspired by the “Muffins” scene. I don’t think the creators intentionally set out to mock the less-fortunate any more than any other comic-relief characters in countless films and TV shows, but I can see how it feels that way, and that they could’ve done it more tactfully and maturely. Thank goodness they didn’t have any pony actually tease or laugh at her, at least, from memory. I might have to rewatch that scene.[/spoiler]

Sadly, I wasn’t able to resist the temptation to write about said event at length, mainly for the sheer excitement of the creators finally acknowledging the fandom. But ignoring the whole hoo-ha about Derpy/Ditzy, it’s one of the best episodes of the season so far, as it manages to focus on one character’s arc while still giving the rest of the cast equal screentime and things to do, an aspect which has been sorely missing since Season 1. Mentalguru raises a lot of flawed morality questions that I haven’t considered before (and that I agree with), but overall I enjoyed the episode for putting some emotional drama for Applejack’s development, even if some parts like risking her life and others to save her pride come off as a bit far-fetched.

The only episodes that come close in terms of drama and pathos are ‘Sisterhooves Social’ and ‘The Secret of my Excess’, both starring Rarity coincidentally. But it’s great that Applejack’s getting some stories of her own - now we gotta wait on Fluttershy.

Here’s my rather-rushed-review if anyone wants to have a look:
thedriveintheatre.tumblr.com/pos … 4-the-last

P.S. On another interesting note, I used to be an obsessive-compulsive (and am still prone to them, sometimes, but not as much), and seeing some of those traits in Twilight’s behaviour made her a ‘kindred spirit’ for me (which would probably explain why she’s my third-favourite of the Mane 6). They did play this aspect for laughs a couple of times (most notably in ‘Lesson Zero’ and ‘Applebuck Season’) and I found myself chuckling when I recognized bits of my former self in her actions, kinda like when I watch the excellent Tony Shalhoub (“Luigi Loves Ferraris!”) police procedural, Monk.

Have Some Parenthesis. ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )

#382

Thanks TDIT, even if we disagree on how we view the scene in some ways, what’s also been upsetting lately is how some bronies have been acting towards people who felt hurt by it or took issue with it. They think we’re ‘choosing’ to be offended some of them, or even prejudiced ourselves for reading it that way. Or just being ‘boring SJ warriors’ who can’t stand that the bronies ‘won’. Or just being ‘mean killjoys’ and taking it too seriously. (Even some saying we suddenly ‘decided’ it was a slur even though what made it a slur was…other people using it as a slur).

The thing was it wasn’t one thing- it was the combination of all the issues together in that scene which made it problematic for people. I’m hoping the writer just made a bad call, and quickly threw that scene together just taking some of the more unfortunate cues from fanon as ‘inspiration’ (Like I said just ONE of the issues wouldn’t be enough to damn the scene- even the name perhaps, it’s the fact they were all there.) Even Ms Faust has made mistakes and bad calls (who has admitted in the past to for instance regretting her part making a Straw Feminist in PowerPuff Girls). And didn’t seem to have a problem with the name or anything either. Some people don’t realise I guess because they don’t have the same history with it and just don’t know how else it’s been used. But those of us who have had a history of either ourselves or people we care about bullied using such things as ammo… yeah. It hurt. Especially considering its mlp and thus was not expected at all. Unlike well, actual shows which go out of their way to be offensive.

Plus, on another level I kind of really fear that mlp will forget it’s primary audience, which was never the bronies to begin with. (Or adult fans such as myself for that matter anyway.) The most important audience is the children, especially the little girls and helping them know they’re awesome no matter what whether they’re disabled or not too, not just about whether they’re a girly girl or tom boy (the former of which has been also shamed in other media- which is why Rarity is awesome). And if they ever had to make a choice on who to please and keep happy- it should always be in the younger viewers interests, not the bronies or just general adult fans.

#383

No worries, mentalguru - everyone has a right to be offended, myself included.

Just curious which aspects do we disagree on? Not being confrontational, just requesting elaboration. For me, I think it’s about the name-choice of Derpy, which is no different to me than calling someone “silly” or “goofy”, but I can see how it can be taken in a different context. Any others?

I don’t think you or others are being killjoys for taking offense, since you, at least, gave a valid reason. I mean, there are prudes, but the very definition of a prude, what is offensive/acceptable is very subjective, much like most of life. So for the close-minded bronies (never thought I’d use that phrase), it is not very nice of them to be so dismissive of you and other people’s opinions, and not being considerate enough of your feelings. I always believe that we should hear ‘the other side of the fence’, and sometimes we fail in doing that, but I believe we should all try our best to listen.

^ THIS. I actually debated about that at length in the first few pages of this thread. Some people didn’t mind the wanton cartoon violence, but my main beef was how it was being used as the only manifestation of female empowerment, instead of, say, getting good grades, or being self-sufficient, etc. Princess & The Frog and Tangled did this to better degrees, although in the end, it still did take a prince or a monarchistic title for their salvation.

Again, this is very subjective, but I would say it isn’t as loaded a word as say, “retard” or “stupid”. It can be used in an affectionate manner (my friends and I use it occassionally in a non-mean-spirited way), but then again, so do the ‘F-bomb’ and ‘N-word’ cusses. Speaking from personal experience, a lot of Australian swear and take the p*ss out of each other, and when I first arrived, I was horrified. But then I got used to context and judged for myself if they really mean it, or they were ‘yanking my chain’. But I know what you mean by ‘trigger words’ and how they can hurt. I was once called a ‘blur sotong’ (stupid squid, in Singlish) by a very nasty gym teacher and that word now has negative connotations for me. But someone else who has that a nickname among friends might enjoy being called that. My current ‘callsign’ among mates is ‘hobo’, for my rather slovenly ways. It all depends on your life experience, and the context of the situation. I sure hope, though, that it is simply her nickname (I still think of ‘Ditzy’ as her real name) - I mean, no self-respecting pony parent would intentionally christen their filly that, right? I hope not.

I agree with this too. It’s great they’re inserting subtle pop-culture references and sophisticated humour for the adults, and I hope they keep it that way. But the last thing I want is for MLP to lose its earnest sentimentality and devolve into the dime-a-dozen ironic, sarcastic cartoons with poop jokes that fill the box nowadays.

#384

I was most shocked when Rainbow Dash actually called her Derpy - I never would have thought in a million years that if they decided to bring her into the show they would actually use the name Derpy Hooves considering that a) it could offend some people and b) it’s a fan-created name, which could lead to some legal difficulties (people on 4chan were talking about suing Hasbro for intellectual theft when the MLP Facebook page originally called her Derpy :unamused: ).

Rainbow Dash yelling at her and becoming frustrated is just what Rainbow Dash does, I don’t think it was meant as an insult to anybody, two large parts of her personality are the fact that she’s impatient (see the way she acted to Fluttershy in Dragonshy) and condescending (her reaction to Twilight racing in the Falling of the Leaves).

Hopefully now that they’ve introduced Derpy, they’ll slowly begin to bring her into the show so that she’s more than just the ‘Where’s Wally’ character and actually give her a proper personality. Being clumsy was already one of her traits (dropping all that stuff on Twilight in Feeling Pinkie Keen, pulling the plug in Luna Eclipsed) and from the looks of it, she’s picked up being enthusiastic (greeting the guests in Hearth’s Warming Eve, (trying to) help Rainbow Dash in The Last Roundup).

After the initial shock of “HOLY JESUS IT’S DERPY HOOVES TALKING”, watching the scene again, I can see why some people are upset about her depiction. They did push the clumsy bit a little too far, but I still see her as the goofy, loveable character rather than a non-functional (for lack of a better word) idiot.

#385

TDIT: By disagree I really simply meant that you seemed to enjoy the scene, that’s all. -shrugs-

On another note, some people I know online who were also upset have being nice conversations with the writer of said episode through emails. Apparently she wrote it over a year ago (so complaints about the fandom’s protrayals probably didn’t get through, especially over the praise of said protrayals). Also she is a mother of a child with disabilities and it definitely wasn’t her intention to hurt people. On the whole she’s seems to be understanding towards people. :slight_smile: (And TBH, writers don’t get exact 100% say in everything anyway so it’s probably not 100% her fault, it wouldn’t surprise me if someone else decided pandering would be a good idea).

So in any case maybe things will work out okay after all. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

#386

mentalguru: I did enjoy the scene, although I do agree with the points you’ve raised regarding how it might be regarded as insensitive. I’m sorry about your friend and the pain she had to go through being called names behind her back; everybody deserves dignity and respect. Like you said, I don’t think the creators intentionally set out to demean those with intellectual disabilities, but since this was (perhaps unfortunately) the name the fanbase went with, they had to go with it for the namedrop. Perhaps a more neutral name like ‘Bubbles’ or ‘Muffin Top’ or even ‘Silly Willy’ would’ve been more tactful instead. But then you’d have another round of whiners complaining about ‘Golden Harvest’ or ‘Hearstrings’.

draik made a good point by attributing her being referred to as “Derpy” to Rainbow’s callous personality, so it could simply be a nickname people call her.

I’ve given this matter some thought and realised that giving ‘silly’ characters silly names in animation is nothing new. Disney has Goofy, Warner Bros. has Daffy, Pixar has Bubbles, Dreamworks has Lord Farqhuad, etc. ‘Derpy’ can be seen as an intellectual epithet, but it was never meant as a mean-spirited jibe for the majority of fans, only as a term of endearment. Not that there aren’t cruel fans who delight in seeing Derpy getting into trouble, but that’s probably why she’s so empathetic to all of us - cos’ we all make mistakes and we don’t know everything. Unlike say, Jimmy from South Park or Scrat from Ice Age, who play Butt Monkeys, Derpy doesn’t necessarily have misfortunes happen to her as cause them indirectly. And deep down, she’s just well-meaning and friendly, from what we’ve seen so far.

It’s good that the episode writer is aware of the repercussions of making the name Canon, and even then, it might not be entirely her fault. Maybe some higher-up or lower-down suggested she throw the fans a bone and make their day, so she just wrote it in.

Overall I’m really happy the creators have finally acknowledged her fanon name and personality, but reading posts by mentalguru and a few others elsewhere about how the name and voice has upset them makes me feel bad somehow (not blaming y’all, just that now I see that scene in a different light). :neutral_face:

#387

randomly walks in I LOVE THIS SHO- oh look serious discussion about Derpy.

I’m autistic and it didn’t really bother me. If it was just a character I might cringe a bit, but it was a fandom reference. Something about that made it much more enjoyable to me. It’s be nice if we had an episode where the lesson had to deal with respecting ponies with learning disabilities/differences though someday. Kids need to hear about that stuff. :slight_smile:

#388

I think in the end they could make it right. A disabled character could be a great thing to have if they use her in the future. But the scene wasn’t good at all. I on some level want to grab the head canon that it was Dash calling her a mean name in the end, but unfortunately Dash has been quite the jerk this season already. It’s getting a bit tiring after a while.(9Granted she WAS still a jerk in the scene.)

And unfortunately, it seems as if the writer was possibly unsincere in her apologies to people given the fact some bronies have been posting responses. (Yeah, a lot of the more horrible section of the fandom have found out about the letters and written to her about hearing of people complaining, and suffice to say it seems she doesn’t maybe care after all. Because we’re ‘in the minority’ and all that and most responses have been positive. And it’s really disappointing, given her kid has disabilities and not only adults with disabilities, but PARENTS of those with disabilities were upset and contacted her).

Unless they’re faking the letters but I somehow doubt that. Also unless, she’s just faking things to the bronies, but where would the sense in that be? And it would still be dishonest. She could just calmly say how she feels now that the matter has been brought to her attention.

Which is pretty depressing in the end but there’s little I can do about that at the end of the day. And it’s better to know the truth I guess, even if it kind of hurts. So this may be the end of mlp for me depending on the future as it is. Hard to say really.

IDK, it seems like the fandom really changed in between season 1 and 2. I heard (though second hand) a lot of horror stories, ngl, (such as bronies mocking survivors of sexual abuse with jokes, being misogynistic, especially about Rarity, only caring about themselves and having a twisted version of ‘love and tolerance’ which means never bringing up any controversy ever and pretending the real world had no prejudice or bigotry in it except of course if you were a heterosexual, white male), but then I never really went to ponychan (which I have to say, having seen a part of it during this issue, is pretty terrible and like the little I’ve seen of 4chan, except with an inflated sense of superiority). They seem to have the impression people were sending her ‘hatemail’ too. Which is pretty ridiculous.

Criticism of writing is not hatemail at all, and people seem to have been generally polite in expressing their concerns to her in emails. People who think criticism is hatemail should never get into the writing gig to begin with after all.

#389

I completely agree with you when you say the fandom’s changed over the season break.
I watched a bit of the first episode way back in March of last year but never got around to watching the whole series until halfway through May. The fandom’s ‘love and tolerate’ rule was in full swing at that time and I was accepted extremely well, and impressed at how sincerely nice other bronies were.

Then the season ended and we were left to fend for ourselves for a couple of months, which began to spawn some warped fan interpretations that ended up becoming non-offical canon to the group (Lyra and Bon Bon being a couple, Derpy Hooves being the mailmare, Luna being a quiet and timid prankster). When some people disagreed with these ideas other people were offended and the whole fanon/canon brouhaha started.
Then the whole ‘brony isn’t a gender neutral term’ argument picked up in volume, the label Pegasister was introduced to criticism and scorn among some female fans and a lot of male fans, the 4chan group that first picked up on the ponies decided to separate themselves and not identify as ‘bronies’, and the whole fandom became a big steaming mess of dysfunction.
There was a lot of user-created content in those few months though. Some of the art that was created to distract from the months of no pony is incredible! So’s the music, fan videos and fanfiction. But of course, there was some bad stuff that came along with the good. I’ve found that Rarity and Fluttershy seem to be the most objectified of the main cast by far. For a fandom whose motto is ‘love and tolerate’, some people can be extremely mean though. Twilight is often drawn humanised as being dark-skinned and the amount of hate that comes out of the comments is unbelievable. You can just imagine how people reacted when an Islamic Fluttershy was uploaded to Ponibooru.

Like I said above, I personally wasn’t offended by Derpy’s appearance in the episode, however I do think it was pushed a little too far. Rainbow Dash was probably the worst pony to have her in the scene with and I can easily see and understand how other people would be offended.
There’s been a lot of argument over who’s a ‘true Brony’ and who isn’t recently, so I’ll just give my two cents on the discussion. Anyone who hates, belittles or intentionally upsets other members of the fandom are absolutely, in no way a ‘true Brony’. When the one and only ‘rule’ is to love and tolerate and you set out to do exactly the opposite, you really don’t deserve to identify with the group.

#390

Yeah, there’s a lot of great fanworks out there but… sometimes people take it too far in their devotion. Like in the vein of anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

For instance one thing I love that the bronies came up with is the aforementioned Lyra and Bon Bon couple. It’s a rare thing to have a same sex female couple, while interpretated by male fans at first not about well, OMG!Lesbians. It was just a relationship which happened to be both female. It’s genuinely sweet what some of the things produced for them are.

However sometimes it’s taken too far- I remember someone wrote a (cute) ship fic for Caramel and Bon Bon and some of the fans threw a fit over it for instance and marked it low just for that reason rather than say genuine criticisms. When, well Lyra and Bon Bon aren’t even canon to begin with and even if they were eventually that’d be a bad way to treat someone. If we do get more of them in canon, well, it would be nice for them to be a couple but it shouldn’t be expected. And their personalities of course are completely invented like Lyra’s obsession with humans idea. All we can know is that well, Lyra’s special talent is apparently musical and Bon-Bons to do with making sweets. And not everyone has to like a ship.

Heck not everyone has to like this show either. It’s hardly a flaw, but more of a matter of taste. And some people won’t care for mlp. Just like, heck, I don’t care for/can’t get into Homestruck which also seems to be invading quite a few areas apparently. Doesn’t mean it’s bad or I lack taste, I just… couldn’t get into it and don’t care enough to try a third time.

How some of the fandom treat people who don’t ship popular non-canon ships is pretty weird, and sometimes unsettling. And this is coming from someone who well, is in the Avatar: TLA fandom and caught some of the major arguments towards in the middle-end of season 3 which was pretty wild in of itself. The fandom now with the show over more or less laughs at themselves now, so we’re much better now, but yeah. During the shows run and just after it ended? Pretty awful. And it’s easy to get caught up in that sort of thing and involve yourself in bad behaviour.** I know I did, and in the past I’ve hardly been a fandom saint. But still mlp is taking some shipping and fan theories to heights which only it seems the Supernatural fandom can beat in terms of almost scary level of devotion.

I sometimes feel like in addition to that video “It’s okay to not like things, but don’t be a… about it.” There needs to be a, “It’s okay to LIKE things but don’t be a… to people who don’t.”

**Interestingly a fellow Avatar fan just after the show ended once pointed out that this may because shipping can represent what we desire in a relationship, or at least think a good relationship is about, which can result in such strong and vitriolic debates as well as arguments, and I think she may have had a good point there (depending on the fan though, after all, some people ship because a ship IS messed up and wrong and thus interesting because of the ramifications and reactions of people around them). A similar thing can be in my view with characters we sympathise with or see parts of ourselves or loved ones in. Therefore when people criticise such things in a subconscious sort of way, we’re thinking people are saying either our friends, ourselves or our real life desires (not just fandom ones) are ridiculous/wrong. Good media often makes us adore the characters and maybe hate others for a variety of reasons, and this can be affected by our real life experiences (or perhaps desires out of life).

#391

I agree with this.

I agree with this, and on an off-topic note, I’d apply this with regards to Pixar and its films as well.

I agree with this. For the open-minded, THIS is one of my favourite dA groups. It is eye-opening to see the myriad of fan interpretations on what are essentially (human-wise) ethnicity-less ponies. The only races, according to show creator Lauren Faust, are Earth Pony, Pegasus and Unicorn, so I couldn’t care less if someone drew a black Twilight or a fat Pinkie or a lesbian Rainbow Dash or whatever, as long as they’re not too OOC, like hairy old men.

Hmmm… I wonder how they would look like as geriatrics though. Whoops, someone already thought of that.

And for the Islamic Fluttershy image, I saw this version a few weeks ago (along with a Tyra Banks-inspired Rarity):

And a quick Google search reveals another version (linked for big image size).

Seriously, we’re entitled to our head-canons and fanons and whatnot, but there a million different point of views on the same thing, and no one and everyone’s the right version.

#392

I really like islamic!fluttershy in fanart. She always seems to be pretty whoever is drawing her, and IDK, people who draw her that way seem to respect her as a character in any case. Unlike some fanart I could mention out there. :stuck_out_tongue:

People who give people grief over not having the characters as white when humanising them are terrible people at the end of the day.

(Which is something I forgot to add in my last post).

#393

Anyone who is still concerned about the Derpy issue should probably watch this. Its a really great counter argument to the criticisms of the scene and provides some really great points, whether you agree with them or not.

#394

^Just listened to the entire thing, I think it was really brilliantly proved. I can understand very well why it’s offensive to disabled people for people to try putting them on a pedestal for their disabilities, because we all really just want to be treated as equal individuals, of course.

#395

She makes some points but overall I have to disagree with her. Everyone has different experiences with the word ‘derpy’ and what have you, and it HAS been used in bullying and not in a light hearted way. And it isn’t as if these peoples feelings don’t matter, especially since those who are disabled have felt insulted. It does not mean putting people on a pedestal to acknowledge those feelings as important. People have different experiences. And those with bad experiences shouldn’t be expected to just ‘toughen up’ if they’re unhappy.

And how many bronies have been treating people who were insulted has been pretty disgraceful. They’ve driven people out of the fandom completely in some cases. This woman has been involved in sexual abuse and is also disabled and the bronies have pretty much driven her out:

fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr. … ul-feeling

fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr. … ly-hurting

And I felt this reply worked pretty well regarding the whole issue.

fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr. … to-another

I respect the video posters opinions, but her experiences aren’t universal. People have had different experiences with being disabled. And for many of those who have had bad experiences the Derpy scene was offensive. ‘Derpy’ can be made alright eventually. But as it stands now- it was a bad scene.

Granted a part of me just wants to throw my hands up in the air what with the ‘barking mad’ patient we got in a recent episode.

Take note that Tumblr posts in links contain strong language. - TDIT

#396

Just realised I probably should have warned for the strong language in the links I posted, thankfully TDIT took care of that already. Thanks!

#397

No prob, mentalguru. Remember to write a disclaimer whenever you post links to sensitive content and keep it PG-13 (like Yours Truly did below, heh). :slight_smile:

I listened to balddumborat’s opinion video (we can all comiserate together over why she wasn’t picked to voice Derpy, as unlikely as it would’ve been) and was about to post it here, but someone has beaten me to it. Curse you Rac_Rules, you have foiled my well-laid plans (well, actually my plans are mostly badly-laid, but I digress)!

Personally, I feel that both sides have an equal point on the matter. On the one hand, the word might be ‘loaded’ and offensive to some, and it’s better to err on the side of caution and be polite. On the other hand, to treat the mentally-disabled in a special manner (pun unintended, honestly) is in itself reverse discrimination (or affirmative action).

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t treat everyone with respect, because we all deserve it. But as balddumborat pointed out, there have been silly characters in the show before - like Snails, and Pinkie Pie to an extent. And of course, the entire Mane Six are stereotypes personified. You don’t see tomboys, or nerds, or beauty queens getting outraged over the (sometimes) heavy-handed depiction of their personalities. Maybe it’s because it isn’t as controversial or culturally-sensitive as a mentally disabled person. It shouldn’t be that way, really. I’ve had friends and relatives with such conditions but I talk to them in a normal manner, just that sometimes I have to be aware that they may require assistance with some tasks (just like an elderly person or a pregnant woman, you talk, you joke with them, but you’re aware of their needs).

Again, I don’t think they intentionally set out to outrage the mentally-disabled community. Perhaps they were being insensitive, but again the interpretation of the word is subjective. Disney has Goofy, and Dopey. Warner Bros. has Daffy. Cartoon Network had Billy from Billy and Mandy, Ed from Ed, Edd, and Eddy, I.R. Baboon from I.M. Weasel, etc (The last three from CN in particular, are as Robert Downey Jr. from Tropic Thunder would say, “Full Retard”). There’s a whole legacy of silly characters with silly names, but because MLP has entered the cultural zeitgeist, the helicopter parents, special needs caretakers and sensitive people take notice. Why the double standards, the hypcorisy? Why can’t a googly-eyed, klutzy pony have a nickname in a kid’s show? You might as well take out Timmy from Southpark (whose portrayal I find waaay more offensive than Derpy), or never have Forrest Whitaker act in any movie, because we refuse to ackwnoledge the existence of wall-eyed people.

Nobody complained when Snails spoke in a slurry voice, or when Twilight and Pinkie briefly ‘lost it’ in Lesson Zero and Party of One respectively (at least, not to my awareness). ‘Brown Syndrome’ folks never said a word when they made her eyes her defining feature. But you get a mare acting clumsy (notice, she’s merely being clumsy and blissfully ignorant, but not incapable of coherent speech or thoughts) and people get up in arms about it.

All that said and done, though, the way how people who voice their objection to Derpy were instantly dismissed or derided is not fair either. We should respect opinions from everyone, whether we agree with them or not. Even universally abhorrent things have shades of grey in them, depending on the context and circumstance (and which moral philosophy model you support). So while I, on a personal level, am not offended, I can understand how others can be, and they have my sympathy (I don’t know if that came out right). We shouldn’t shoot someone down when they say “I’m hurt by this statement/remark/character’s name/etc.”, but rather try to find the reason why.

You ask my opinion, I think they should keep Derpy in. I don’t mind if they change her name to Ditzy and change that awful voice (Tabitha in fact admitted she thought she was voicing a stallion! See, people make mistakes all the time). But please don’t remove her entirely; to deny her existence or character as a simple-minded but good-hearted pony is still discrimination in my books.

On another note, the line between affectionate parody and cruel mockery can be very thin. Most people don’t see a problem taking the Mickey out of Twilight movies or Justin Bieber (and believe me, it does get downright mean-spirited at times), but when they do it to Schindler’s List or Stephen Hawking, we get outraged. Does a movie having serious themes mean it is immune to criticism or reconstitution? In this liberal age where we have ‘Hitler Rant’ videos, maybe not now.

Do we ascribe a greater human value to Stephen Hawking than Justin Bieber? Ignore the obvious answer that Stephen Hawking achieved more in contributing to the collecting knowledge of mankind than Bieber and that Bieber is able-bodied; what I mean on a fundamental level is why don’t we treat the two with equal respect as good-natured and law-abiding (as far as I can tell) human beings? Make a ridiculous parody of Bieber being blown to smithereens and nobody blinks. Do the same thing with Stephen Hawking (even though such a parody would have nothing to do with his disability) and you’re asking for trouble.

Note that Youtube link contains gun violence from CSI and various action films.

#398

Though I agree that those who are offended by it should not be threatened, insulted, or rejected, because that is sick no matter the context, I don’t see anything wrong with POLITELY pointing out that someone may be taking something a little too sensitively, especially when they did not live through it themselves. If you were a victim of bullying and the scene was hurtful to/was a trigger for you, I can understand that. However, one of balddumborat’s main points was that getting offended by associating Derpy’s personality traits with the mentally handicapped can be viewed as ableism in itself. Also, I didn’t much like that tumblr poster saying that the mentally handicapped who think they are being too sensitive should “know better.” I guess she could be referring to the threats, but it came across to me as “things that offend me need to be censored, but when you offended by me you should be ashamed.”

Now, I didn’t even LIKE her voice very much (as balddumborat said, it lacked depth and was just generically “stupid,” not unlike Ed or Patrick, and I much prefer hers) but, after re-watching the scene, I noticed a few things. Contrary to what people have been acting like, there was nothing to make her seem like she was anything less than clumsy and a tad ditsy. I think, like Cupcakes or Song of the South, the more it got talked about, the more the actual content was exaggerated. She didn’t slur, pause, or make random sounds. Rainbow Dash doesn’t treat her any differently than she would any other character in that situation–she doesn’t tease her or unfairly berate her, she simply acts mildly annoyed at her destruction at first and then gets angrier when Derpy causes more (she acted far more aggressively towards Pinkie when she got the cider, and actually called Twilight a name in the most recent episode). As Derpy is helping with the clean up at first, obviously she wasn’t shooed away for being useless or anything of the like. Also, on the note of Patrick or Ed, others have pointed out that there may be a note of sexism in here too. Nobody cares when Lord-knows-how-many male characters act like this, but a female character? An uproar.

I think when they shift her voice (because, as pointed out, the voice actress thought she was voicing a stallion and thus it is lower) she might be less seemingly stereotypical. Like BDR also said, I wouldn’t mind if they just start calling her Ditsy Doo instead, but if they remove all of her scenes and change her personality I will be quite miffed.

#399

In the end I felt the main point was that people have different experiences with the word and some people have incredibly bad experiences with it. The video almost seem to imply that only those who were able bodied/not in anything like special ed had a problem, which in the end is false. And in the end the blog post seemed more about people who said others should just ‘get over it’. Which just isn’t on.

One person (whether they took it badly or not) isn’t enough to be a spokesperson for an entire group but in the end those who were hurt shouldn’t be told to get over it or that they’re being over-sensitive or that there isn’t a problem. If someone who is disabled wasn’t insulted was fine with it, I’m hardly going to tell them they should feel insulted. But it seems off if someone tells someone part of the group ‘how to feel’ whether positive or negative or nothing at all about the scene anyway.

In regards the scene it was really entirely the combination of things that ticked people off as mentioned earlier. People often list each point saying why it doesn’t matter, but it’s really in the end, the combination of things all together. One thing alone isn’t enough to condemn it, but the ‘derp’ thing did frame it. And unfortunately the video does not frame everyones experiences with the word ‘derp’. However if we were to pick one thing other than the name in the end it was Rainbow’s reaction which nailed it. She shouted at her, telling her not to do anything, and all the things together were created for the scene. Kids can often imitate that sort of thing, at the risk at sounding like a ‘helicopter parent’ (even though I’m not a parent).

And as mentioned the whole ‘Derpy’ thing can be made better in the future. In a future episode, but with the scene by itself, it was just fan pandering and Rainbow’s reaction problematic. If ‘Derpy’ really doesn’t understand what went wrong there are better ways for dealing with that. Yeah, Rainbow is hardly a sensitive pony, but then why stick her with Rainbow to begin with?

As for the whole snails thing, well in the end he’s maybe a bit slow but he’s more an enthusiastic fanboy of Trixie to me, as well as the only unicorn of school age in ponyville who can do magic. An innocent kid too as well as a bit naive. I could see the CMC doing the exact dang thing with that bear if they’d been starry eyed- Scootlaoo certainly would to prove RD was ‘awesome’. Because they’re kids, and ridiculously dangerous out there things are what kids do especially on tv. The voice may be seen as a bit suspect at first if you just saw him with the scene with Spike explaining why they shouldn’t believe Trixie but he isn’t a mere throw away character for a cheap laugh IMO.

With regards some other examples: Goofy himself was shown to be a good father and all that eventually in the newer cartoons. In the end end though with regards older cartoons… well good characters are hardly to be expected in a lot of cases. And ‘Goofy’ isn’t a slur, like ‘Derp’ has been used for to begin with.

I’ve also seen things about ‘Pinkie’ from Pinkie and the Brain, and people trying to push that forward- but honestly while Pinkie wasn’t as book smart as Brain he did seem to be the heart of the show among other things. As for south park and Timmy, well I don’t watch South Park (nor am at all interested in it) so I can’t say much there.

Some cartoons are an unfortunate product of their time and some have in fact been improved, and some cartoons don’t have the mass appeal MLP has gotten. And some cartoons are made to be insulting sometimes (like South Park seems to from what I’ve seen- I watched a bit of 'Mr.Garrison getting a gender reassignment just so he wouldn’t be gay and then insulting the whole idea of transitions altogether and I was like “Yeah… no.” You go to South Park with the full acknowledgement this isn’t for kids and you’ll probably get certain feelings stomped over depending on who you are. MLP not so much).

So no, I don’t honestly see the thing as ‘sexist’ either especially given the whole ‘snails’ thing. It’s a -show- thing. And TDIT has brought up the fact that MLP is -specifically- getting flack… but that’s because of the very nature of the show in question. I mean with Ed, Edd and Eddy you can tell from the offset this isn’t going to be sensitive, thought provoking television about friendship.
I think it’s because at the end of the day: this is My Little Pony. People expect offensive things from many places, and real life general doesn’t give two shakes about whether you’re triggered or not. People just in general don’t seem to care. It’s kind of why I think some things in warnings should be changed even in -adult- things. But that’s off topic really in this instance. MLP in a way has often been different to many other media out there right now. And even for a while in season 1 the fandom seemed different. In exclusively/near exclusive adult areas or shows, well adults who act horribly/bully people for such things are already horrible people anyway. MLP is supposed to be this fluffy utterly girly show with acceptance and love. It’s also in terms of adults, helped a number of them who haven’t had the best lives in some ways. In season 2 though… some of its kind of been lost all the same. There’s not as much heart. There’s still some good sparks here and there as well as episodes- but for the most part, it’s kind of lacking. It’s getting more wacky hijinks rather than as much heart as it used to, which yeah I guess should have been a warning sign. Other shows however don’t tend to try to produce ‘morals’ anymore (which admittedly are tacked on sometimes) or teach ‘lessons of friendship’. MLP is simple and fun and helps kids and adults. The whole point of the show is to show off how awesome female friendship is from the offset and how people/ponies interact with one another. So when the show fails at this… well, yeah, more people are going to sit up and take notice- because that’s the whole point of the show. Rainbow being angry with her is realistic with her character- but then why stick her with Rainbow in that scene at all?

Not to say that season 1 didn’t have occasional problems and controversy too- though for different reasons.

Which is what made people flip out, especially given Rainbow’s reaction to her and yelling her towards the end of that scene. It reminded adults and teens of childhoods and some parents worrying if it would be imitated. You can almost in some ways -expect- to be ‘triggered’ by some shows, and mlp for some seemed like a safe space. Maybe that can be regained. Perhaps they can make the scene ‘better’ not by removing it but by having Dash learn something. (Even if ‘Dash learns something’ isn’t getting a little tired right now. Especially since she doesn’t seem to develop like the rest of the mane 6 do). Granted generally there has been criticism of Rainbow this season in general- she was brash in season 1, but she’s pretty much an utter jerk in season 2 it seems. Which is a shame. Plus as mentioned in one of those blog posts for some people this show was important for them for various reasons, which is why it hurt when it happened.

With regards things like nerds… well they’re not an oppressed minority. But in the end MLP should also be about breaking stereotypes. Twilight shows bookworms/nerds aren’t boring, she’s socially awkward but she’s smart and means well, Rarity is refreshing considering the way most media treats girly girls, Fluttershy shows that just because she’s shy she still can handle herself when her friends are in trouble etc.

I guess that’s in the end why people were shocked and reacted badly. It was just not expected at all given the very nature of the show itself. It wouldn’t probably get (as much) of an out cry from something like South Park, but in South Park you pretty much know what you’re getting it seems.

Also, no-one has to worry about the scene at all. It’s staying exactly the same. It’s pretty much has been confirmed as such. The majority wins according to the responses from staff etc.

#400

I do see what you’re saying, and I was thinking about an earlier discussion with TDIT, and I came to realize that I do see a similar problem: both the fans and writers alike seem to be losing a little touch with who exactly is the target audience here. At first, I loved this shift in season 2. The villain was darker, the humor was more modern and adult (without being dirty), and the story-lines were more complex. However, I have noticed some negative things too. The character’s personalities have gotten more extreme, they tend to be meaner to each other and the writers have gotten a slight tendency to pander to the internet fan base. This may be better for us, but its not good for the little girls who, believe it or not, do watch the show, and it may cause MLP to lose touch with the charm that made it so great in the first place.