On That Whole "Hurting Innocent Children" Thing

Pixar's Feature Films Monsters, Inc. / University
#1

If one of our own human scientists got ahold of a monster, adult or child, what do you suppose the scientist would do with it? If our scientists believed that these monsters were really no more than odd-looking animals, possibly very dangerous animals, how would they treat it? Do you think that they would treat it as just another person, or what? What would YOU do, if you were a scientist, and you had such a creature in your lab? If you believed that this creature might in some way be of benefit to us, as a species, even if that meant possibly harming the creature in some way, would you do it? Would you allow other scientists to have access-in whatever capacity that might mean-to the creature? Assume that this one creature is the ONLY contact you have had, the only thing you know about their world, wherever it might be, and all you know about it is A)it’s strange-looking, B)it’s probably dangerous in some way, and C)it might be of benefit to us/we might be able to exploit it in some fashion for our benefit(s).

I’ll wait for your responses.

pitbulllady

#2

I feel I have to say this.
Everyone…this would probably be a delicate discussion. So be wary of a heated debate, and nobody go into full-on-bash mode…

Personally…I agree. Most humans would likely exploit or kill (if they can’t exploit) a monster rather than shake hands with it.
Bring in the fact of Scream Technology, which monsters most likely won’t give up, and humans will most definitely take a violent path. Why? Well, because it’s something they want.

#3

I agree, thats probably why Monsters keep themselves secret from Human adults.

#4

It depends on a number of things really. In what way would this benefit my species. Is the species being tested on rare? Is proper procedure being followed?

Of course, I’d hope I wouldn’t be in that position of doing so under illegal conditions, though we’ll consider it in a legal type of set-up. Granted this differs from country to country possibly. There are a number of things that have to be undertaken in such conditions usually, though in the scream extractors case, I guess its different given the very nature of it. Animals under testing conditions generally should not endure any undue stress and I’d want to avoid that in any case, for one it’s not something wanted for the animals wellbeing and for two it can affect the results of the test or experiment. Also if any background knowledge which means you DON’T have to test on animals at all (say it’s been completed before)- you sure as hell shouldn’t and won’t in my unis case, get permission to do so. People test on animals right now because other options aren’t really viable yet in terms of scale and the results actually meaning something- and as the one in charge of the labs in my uni is doing, she’s actually working to get herself out of a job. It will be a great day when testing on animals isn’t necessary, though it’s not today. Still things have to be tightened in animal research overall, but it’s getting better.

(And you know, despite what some people might claim people who test on animals aren’t people who cackle wildly and are absolute sadists who hate animals). Also you are ONLY allowed to test on the animal once. Even when it fails to be carried out. This is very important. I mean to say if it turned out in the scream extractors case that while he went through a full run through and yet something went wrong and the results are messed up you CAN’T use the same individual animal again. Nor can you preform multiple experiments on animals (for one undue stress and also again it doesn’t make any scientific sense to begin with).

Generally of course it would depend on the situation, but overall monsters do view humans as animals. This is more or less a canon fact which is clear, even if it is never overtly stated and perhaps it should be. Sulley treats her like a puppy though. Mike calls her ‘it’ etc and talks about releasing her into the wild. The only person we see any evidence of giving her any belief in her intelligence is possibly Waternoose- who seems to think she could be a witness. Of course he could just have said ‘You both have’ for dramatic effect. Boo is evidence at the very least.

Illegaly testing on an animal or something you view as an animal is still a morally sticky situation of course (I mean it’s illegal to start with and also there’s a possibility procedure wouldn’t be preformed), but it’s not really the same as testing on someone you -know- has the same cognitive and sentient abilities as your species. Like a fellow human in our case when consent cannot be granted or isn’t granted. (Testing on humans does happen, though you have volunterrs and it occurs AFTER testing on animals).

However it wouldn’t be in Waternooses or Randalls best interests for Boo to be harmed during or because of the experiment- or any human child. It is their energy source after all and they want these kids to be used in the long term. A real disturbing thing would possibly be the future if they’d been successful- if they didn’t want to depend on the human world- I could imagine something creepy like battery farms or breeding programmes for instance.

And if the kids are young enough they wouldn’t be able to show their true intelligence- especially if they grew up in an unorthadox environment. People might attribute them the same intelligence as we say grant chimps, but such an environment would not be beneficial at all to their mental development and they’d probably NEVER be able to show their true intelligence if they were taken young enough.

Creepy scenario indeed. It can show the real dangers of misinformation, desire and percieved need.

It’s just as well they didn’t ‘win’ even though the exit of one of them was unorthadox at best and still not right, though I can see from the perspective of someone who thinks of a species as just an animal, when there is an apparent crisis on their hands doing so. While energy crises aren’t really the same as say an epidemic of some illness which would be the true example in this world I could see people being pushed to do so (say if they got impatient about procedure or getting permission maybe?). Energy affects everything.

Just as well an alternative was found really and Sulley protected Boo in the end. I could see monsters, if they were really desperate and Waternoose presented this option to them going ahead with it. They’re TERRIFIED of humans, a species they seem to know very little about. (…lazer vision? Unless of course this is Bird’s human universe… I somehow doubt that though) and they wouldn’t be all too welled up or concerned with regards human safety. It’s just that they’d be concerned about bringing a ‘toxic’ animal species in and harming themselves.

What people believe, even when it’s not true can be very powerful.

If anything both Sulley and Randall for criticised regarding FUNGUS being placed in front of the machine (Sulley for doing it, Randall for yelling at the guy about where Mike was instead of turning it off first). And Mike for that matter in Randalls case. It’s possible Randall was wanting to see the guy squirm in Mikes case though because he hated him, thought Mike was a cheater in his eyes etc as well as standing in the way of his aims and was ‘out to get him’ in some form and wouldn’t tell him where the kid was. He wanted pay-back in some form against him- he wanted him genuinely scared, and while his top aim was getting information he was indeed getting joy out of seeing Mike freaked out. But the lack of concern on Fungus’ behalf is more bothersome. I guess it could be said both paniced in Fungus’ case. (Sulley wanted to keep Fungus occupied and Randall was letting his one lead slip away with every second). Though it doesn’t speak very well for either of them.

#5

Thank you, MG, especially for pointing out the protocols in place for using animals in experiments, AND pointing out that insofar as the monsters were concerned, human children WERE nothing more than “lower animals”. The issue with Randall building the Scream Extractor and testing it on a human child, from a monster perspective, was NOT due to concerns about “kidnapping”(which only applies to your own species, if you’re a sapient being) or cruelty to children, but was strictly one of MONSTER safety and well-being, based entirely on the false notion that human children were so toxic as to constitute a horrific threat not only to the monster directly in contact with them, but to their entire populace. It is a view not unlike “BSL”(Breed Specific Legislation) and bans on many so-called “exotic” animals in our society here in our world. The politicians who put those laws into effect aren’t concerned with how the ANIMALS are treated, but in the alleged threat they pose to humans, a threat which, like the monster perception of human children being “toxic”, is either greatly overblown on non-existant. From a monster perspective, there is nothing unethical about exploiting human children, and that would include using them to test experimental Scream-gathering technology, were it not for the alleged threat that those children pose. It would be no different, from their point-of-view, that a human scientist using a rat or a monkey to test a new product or new surgical procedure. The scientist isn’t doing so because he/she is “greedy”, or “selfish”, even though if the experiment turns out to be successful and has real applications, there IS reward to be had, in terms of both money and recognition. The scientist isn’t mean or cruel, in spite of what the Animal Rightists want us to believe-that image of the cackling, evil mad scientist conducting horrible experiments on helpless creatures just to see them suffer and make money off their pain.

LOGICALLY, the arguement that Randall’s using a human child to test out new technology was “evil” and unforgiveable does not hold water, because it’s going on the assumption that he should have viewed human children as WE do, and that human children would have been afforded the same protection that WE give them. IF he’d used a MONSTER child in the experiment, then I would have a real problem with his behavior, but given how monsters viewed humans, we cannot and should not expect him to have had the same considerations of Boo as he would have for a monster child at all. Did he stand to gain financially if he succeeded? Yes, assuming that Waternoose intended to follow through with his promises, which I highly doubt. Did Randall stand to gain positive recognition from other monsters if he succeeded? Yes, but again, that would have contingent upon the highly-unlikely scenario of his boss following through with HIS end of the bargain. Did the results of the experiment have potential benefit to ALL of monster-kind, that Randall was aware of? Absolutely! He even basically states so in the movie, which negates the arguement that his efforts were purely in his own self-interest, i.e., “selfish”. How is he, in those respects, any different from a human scientist testing new technology(some of which could save the lives of the very people who have lambasted doing so) on a non-human animal?

pitbulllady

#6

I actually do understand your point with this. I guess Randall just sees Boo as some unintelligent animal, giving him a reason to experiment on her.

#7

Actually now that I think about it, it’s kind of interesting.

There probably is a form of animal testing in the Monster World. They most probably have medical care so it’s kind of a given that they have it or at least once had it (say they’ve advanced in that area to where people here are working towards now- to make it completely unnecessary to test on animals in the future for medical care, since that’s what people here are doing any rate.)

Of course, given the fact humans are thought to be toxic, it’s illegal to even bring a child in there- even accidentally doing so has Mike and Sulley really fearing for themselves legally speaking. So… there’s no labs in any case in the monster world which have humans.

Now. Waternoose is smart. He can be impatient but you can’t deny his intelligence. He probably knows this. There are no humans being bred in some lab somewhere in the Monster World. There’s no legal means by which to test this idea of the scream extractor. Yet.

Now, if procedure is even anything like how it is where I am testing on animals is a tricky thing, even when you know, the species itself is legally in a lab and allowed to be tested on. I think a lot of people might think that if you have a science degree, OR at the very least a PHd/ studying for a pHd you can just go in any lab and do what you want there.

But that couldn’t be further from the truth. (At least not in the UK). It’s still not perfect- but they’re getting much better in this area and changes are being proposed in some cases. (Though honestly I am totally behind banning it in the case of cosmetics in any case these days… there’s no point to it, heck there wasn’t back then).

First off you as an individual have to go through a series of training and tests. This includes basic animal care and well, making sure you’re not the type of person to make animals nervous. Also that you know the basic procedures and whatever and I think you also have to prove you know procedure and anatomy training (the basics involve rats I think)

And even after this you’re not free to do whatever you want. It can take months, and you have to obviously justify your actual project (as well of course the lab having had to be certified and having the basic facilities necessary). This also includes the number of say individual animals you use- you have to justify that number as being necessary. If scientific meaning can be gained from less individuals then… yeah you’re going to get that lower number of animals instead. Go cry a river. You’re not going to get anymore individual animals than is strictly necessary.

Even through legal means… it takes a lot of time sometimes to get from actually having an idea to actually being granted permission at all.

And tiny slip ups can even mean your ass is theirs. I think there are still some things they need to tighten up but overall- it’s really not a case of putting on a white lab coat and going on your merry way.

And humans? They’re clearly not even legal to have breathing the same air space as non-scarer monsters for very long let alone be in a lab somewhere.

If Waternoose proposes the scream extractor idea now, well people aren’t possibly desperate enough yet to agree. Plus there’s the risk factor involved in it not working and him looking like a fool rather than a ‘hero’ if he does have it made and then goes through the testing process then publically (though the extra fake tests would be unethical themselves by that stage even in the case of animals, but still). Also if he tries to work the system, try to make human testing legal… that will draw suspiscion on him when he (inevitably) decides to go down the illegal route if theings don’t go his way or things take too long for his liking- we see he certanly has limits to his patience (though who doesn’t I guess)- he’s probably looked into this, or had someone look into this regarding the idea of how long it would take to be made legal (if at all). Waternoose is clever, he’s probably accounted for this sort of thing. He didn’t draw the suspicions of the CDA for instance so…

In the end the illegal route was the one he went down with Randall which I guess seemed the most tantilising option for now other than doing nothing. I think the thing is, since this is a prototype, Boo wouldn’t have even have been the only child to get tested. There’d at least be a couple more kids tested on later on in case it was a fluke or whatever. Waternoose would make sure things were accounted for. Maybe even say he can ‘deal’ with the ‘toxicity’ in some form which is absoultly safe. Like a placebo effect- telling them toxicity can be removed in some form or they’ll be safe somehow by keeping them locked up. (Honestly is some of the ‘symptoms’ of toxicity from stress or fear or what when humans come into the picture in their modern times at least? The mind can do crazy things to the body after all).

Then he’d wait a little while and public hysteria would mean he could produce the machine and pretend it hasn’t been tested yet (but it has), they go through ‘trials’ when public opinion has shifted enough and well. Yeah. He’s a hero now in their eyes.

Mass amounts of very young human children taken from their beds in the beginning. Breeding programmes. Waternoose dies an even richer and more powerful man having kick started this sick ’ revolution’ using Randall and Fungus as grunts for the prototypes engineering work, with many monsters being unaware that what they’re doing is indeed as sick and wrong as it is- and he might be long gone by the time Monsters even discover the truth about humans. In any case, Waternoose leaves behind a legacy and he and both the company will be remembered forever.

Whether history would judge him honestly in that senario is neither here nor there. He’d be gone by then probably if he ever would have been in such a senario- in the senario where the CDA wasn’t suspicious to begin with, Mike did his paperwork, Sulley never found Boo and the test went as planned and was successful. It’s questionable if Waternoose knew the truth beyond humans not being toxic.

Like I said, it’s obviously just as well that DIDN’T happen, but it so easily could have in that in-universe senario. (I mean after all I doubt Pixar in terms of creator intent would literally go down that road as an alternate take, but in terms of in-universe senarios it seems frighteningly plausible).

#8

I’ve often thought about this subject for a possible sequel, as posted in the “Genre-Switch Pixar’s Next Sequel” thread, and as a cryptozoologist researcher I think they would most likely treat the monster like they do with any other animal or unknown species. Probably take a blood sample or at least some spare fur samples, nothing too dangerous, as well as some cardiac tests and some simple x rays and then release back into the wild. However, given that monsters are at least at a cognitive level, they might also run a few simple questionairre just to know some of it’s background.

I think their main interest would be in trying to investigate Monstropolis as opposed to any kind of monster biology or dissection autopsy. When discovering species, in most cases, scientists try and study the organism as a living entity and interactions with its ecological niche as opposed to some kind of horrific dissection. If the monster was sick however, then they might try and cure him/her, but being perfectly sound and communicative they’d probably just handle it like an interview. At least thats what I would do.[/spoiler]

#9

A very interesting premise PB!

Unlike with the case of very young human kids, adult monsters on top of being entirely unique species they at the very least never have seen or heard of by humans (unlike say humans to monsters, where they are merely grossly misinformed while being very aware of their existence). Humans who are brand new to monsters, with no prior experience to them would be more interested in preserving them in some form in the case of true scientists, since they could be the only ones of their kind at first at the very least, even before finding out cognitive abilities

Of course a scared and/or not that bright other citizen might attack before asking questions though. And it would be dicey say if they’d met monsters before outside of childhood and had prior bad experiences with them, considering them well deserving of the ‘monster’ moniker for instance no exceptions. (Which given the severity of banishment as a punishment is possible in some cases I guess, while you’d get some abominable snowmen you’d probably get some ones that wouldn’t be the wisest to walk up to).

Granted if I saw another being like a monster I would be torn between running away (because seriously, walking up and sticking my hand to shake to someone/something when I have no clue what he/she/it is? Not the best idea) or running after it if they ran away (because I’d want to know what the heck they were, but then again that might not be the brightest idea). I’d try to speak calmly at first and maybe call after them- but no doubt if they could understand me, I’d possibly insult them in some way in reality if if was difficult to tell at first what their abilities were. (Face it if one came crashing in screaming at you or in other situations that’s a possibility).

Me: “Good… horned bear… thing…Stay.”

Monster: “Excuse me Miss, but it is rather insulting that you consider me to have the intelligence of a common house pet”.

Me: “You can talk?!”

Monster: “Yes, and so can you… though I am rather unimpressed at your vocabulary range. Heavens child, what do they teach in those human schools?”

(Why this monster sounds like this, I have no idea just seemed funny).

#10

tilts unneeded glasses
Lets remember ladies and gentlemen, that most banished monsters (aside from the wrongly accused or “disposed of”, like Randall) have been sentenced in a court of law as a harsh punishment.
Needless to say, doubt they’d be passive about being captured.

And I doubt that someone like Randall would let any human take a blood sample or prick one of his scales off.

To be honest, it’s better for scientists to leave the matter alone. Humans have enough trouble dealing with each other.

#11

I don’t know how familiar you are with scientific protocol upon the discovery of a new species of animal, but having participated in species “inventories” myself, in which previously unknown species WERE found, I can tell you that it goes WAY beyond just taking a few blood or tissue samples. It almost always involved KILLING and preserving the animal in question, and then dissecting it and examining it and its varous parts in minute detail. Virtually all new species are classified based upon specimens which have been collected and killed.

I don’t know how that would work if it was obvious that the creature in question was sapient(which is NOT the same as sentient)and could talk, since we have never had that experience, and by “we” I mean human beings. We’ve never encountered-not officially, anyway-any species other than ourselves that meet that description. In the case of a very young monster child, though, who cannot yet speak, that intelligence might not be readily apparent, just as Boo’s intelligence was not readily apparent even to Sulley. Even when he realized that she was not “toxic”, he still thought of her as just an animal for some time, treating her as a human might treat a stray puppy that followed them home. It took him awhile to realize that she was much more than that, and we have to consider that Sulley was NOT looking at Boo from any scientific perspective. A human biologist, upon gaining access to a monster child, would procede differently. IF that monster child happened to have organs and tissues similar to ours(they ARE descended from us, after all), then the inevitable topic of using them as organ “banks” is bound to come up, and many people would feel no ethical obligation to them at all. The less physically appealing or “cute” they are, the less sympathy they are likely to garner. It’s like feral cats vs. the Burmese Pythons in southern Florida(if there are any left after two brutally cold winters); people pitch a fit when you discuss killing feral cats, a terrible invasive pest, but mention killing pythons, and everyone wants to sign up for a chance to destroy those non-native animals, as brutally as possible. The less “human” a monster appeared, the less likely it would be to receive any mercy or consideration to spare its life.

pitbulllady

#12

I’ll admit I wasn’t aware of that protocol myself, though I’ve never participated in inventories.

It kind of depends. It’s possible that say for instance they could attribute chimp level intelligence in such cases (as say a monster kid). But it’s possible they’d also want to observe specimens as well or at the very least if there were other ‘specimens’. Then again if they consider it unique, they might consider well it’s not going to breed anyhow so ‘scalple and pickle jar please, let’s see what this is’ if they don’t gain insight into their intelligence. If someone saw certain monsters, they certainly wouldn’t attribute them to beings of another planet, that probably wouldn’t even cross their minds. They’d consider them species which simply evolved here. According to extra information on the DVD… well they DID evolve here (albeit they also inserted fantasy elements to it though like them turning into what they ate), which is kind of interesting (two species having similar level of cognitive abilities being originally from the same planet), but I think you know what I mean. If say monsters came in a space ship that would obviously indicate that they had a level of intelligence and they came from somewhere else as well.

But monsters DON’T have spaceships. They’re ‘merely’ able to create portals. Though of course that’s not immediately self evident to the person who first comes across them.

Honestly maybe the only sure way would be if say someone from the CDA got stuck there. They’d actually look more like people would suppose aliens of the 1950s would look like what with their suits and weapons and all.

But given the CDAs attitude to ‘problems’ they wouldn’t be the best first official contact for humans to make. Oh good grief no.

To be honest I kind of wonder if the odd monster or two HAS managed to make positive contact with humans. Somewhere. Not anywhere politically important, maybe somewhere kind of isolated from the rest of the world or a people which are isolated from it. Maybe somewhere or whatever there is a monster going around with nomadic people or hidden people and is more or less content and accepted if wary of humans outside the group. Of course, few of the monsters banished would certainly be ones to be able to do so- through being too dangerous themselves (and… well, perhaps they’d deserve the name ‘monster’, which shows that seriously monsters don’t give a DAMN about human safety- if they send (probably, at least most of them) considered to be dangerous criminals here after all- those ones they don’t consider worth even keeping in prison… well they don’t care about humans at all beyond an energy source and keeping them away from the monster world… so yeah),

But the odd one would possibly have made positive contact, if they finally realise that humans are not toxic and observe some of them and strike lucky. Perhaps not in scientific capitals, but in certain parts of the world and with certain cultures they might not make it out too badly. Certain people would consider strange beings as a given and as either equals or something not to fear but at least respect or treat as 'equals. Culture itself can be used in either positive or negative ways in that regard so…

Granted, thankfully, my own personal first reaction would not be a shovel, as much as I’d honestly probably make a fool of myself in such a situation in some other way. I would most probably with such a being at first talk to it LIKE it was a lesser animal if there was nothing to indicate that level of intelligence otherwise. After staring. Probably. It would depend if such a being gave me a chance to begin with though. I might even try to give them food of some kind. And debate in my head whether it would be a good idea to touch ‘it’. (Probably not.)

But honestly, I’d be kind of surprised if Randall was the first monster who was exiled without a trial (I really, -really- doubt that he’s unique at all in his situation- even disregarding Waternoose knowing that banishment door number for Sulley and Mike a little too well, it’s almost definitly happened before somewhere in the monster world outside of the Waternoose family and even the CDA themselves who possibly have such powers), and that’s not even considered certain monsters who either were innocent and unfortunatly the jury voted them guilty (it happens, obviously), or who reformed, or heck even those who (perhaps) were exiled for lesser crimes in the older days- say there was a time you got hung for being merely a thief here once.

It’s hard to attribute or gauge the monster justice system, except for the fact they have one (jury duty), and the fact banishment is a greatly feared punishment, so much so that in Mike and Sulley’s time, the monsters who recieve it are household names that are listed off all too easily. Though then again that in it of itself might mean it’s ALWAYS been taken very seriously… maybe, and for a lesser crime maybe it simply never was used (like hanging and thievery for us.). Plus there might even be the ‘conspiracy’ idea, where say a few monsters got too close to the truth- and a smear campaign was launched, them being promptly exiled. Or heck even just accidentally getting stuck in the monster world somehow- such monsters could be considered like missing persons- officially dead after a certain amount of time. There are many, many ways to probably end up in that position, being a criminal and being sentenced to it after a trial is possibly just one of them.

Of course, even in the case of monster adults, communication would still possibly be an issue, though they could demonstrate intelligence more easily. It would depend on a number of factors, and it wouldn’t be too difficult to imagine a monster being especially unlucky in that area and get killed before they could show how intelligent they were.

#13

What I would do? Well, I am neither a scientist or a sadistic , unreasonable person (no I am not implying that they are one in the same) So I would revert to the Golden Rule (pardon the corny, corny term) and simply treat the monster the way he or she would treat me; Which would would MOST likely be to run away.

MG, I really love your responses, very well thought out and unbiased :smiley:

I also agree that animal testing is a necessary practice, even if the ethics of animal testing are questionable, I know that legit scientists do nothing out of sadism.

However, I have a very difficult time believing that after years of contact with human beings, seeing our architecture (however briefly), our children, the toys they play with, the beds they sleep in, and, since a lot of fans like to use every bit of extended canon available as leverage, they also know our literature (like Harry Potter). All of these things are what humans have in common with monsters, right? They knew enough about these things to make simulators.
All of these things should be fair indicators of just how sentient human beings are. Even if Monsters were conditioned to believe that humans are toxic and come with lasers, how is it that not ONE after all this time, made the connection and made an effort to test it?

I think the “toxic” myth was perpetuated by people like Waternoose in an effort to hang on to their energy empires. Also, admitting that what you grew up with was wrong, even with all the evidence staring you in the face is hard especially when it’s been ingrained for centuries.

I don’t doubt that most monsters on the outside (that is, monsters that do not work in the scaring industry) would have an understandable reason to see us as animals, but I think that the monsters in the scaring industry had no real excuse.

#14

The C.D.A. is a constant reminder of the whole “toxic” thing. They are an organization that’s first and foremost directive is to handle matters regarding human involvement with monsters.
Most monsters have been scarred so out of their wits, and the C.D.A. keep it that way. Honestly…blowing a sock to smitterins? Destroying an ENTIRE restaurant (and apparently a hard one to get into at that) with simply the MENTION of a human child?

It would be like a sort of “communism” thing. Actually in some cases it could be. I do, however, doubt it was taken in the literal sense (like an angry neighbor would suddenly get a visit from the C.D.A. because another neighbor said he was harboring human stuff or whatever).
But merely it’s a fear driven thing. I mean take a look at Celia. She was witness to the events at Hausen’s and somehow she got her neck sprained, though we don’t see how.
George is a great example. He’s been subjected to multiple C.D.A. calls, and we can see the effect it has on him.

Yes. The heads of the scream industry are probably away this whole toxic thing is fake. And are aware of human intelligence. But they use what has already been in place, along with the C.D.A. to keep up appearances.

#15

Thank-you! It’s an interesting world I find so, yeah, expect very long posts in relation to it. Sometimes even the things probably un-intended are the most interesting too.

Personally I wonder about ‘extended’ canon myself at points, but generally you make a good point about the architecture, though the thing is things don’t really add up in relation to how Sulley, Mike treat her in any case. One of them -is- a scarer and I don’t doubt Mike has at some point seen the inside of a human kid’s bedroom and heck if we’re taking extended canon apparently Mike first applied to be a scarer too so would have seen the simulation at the very least. But Sulley lies newspaper out for her in the night. Mike talks about releasing her ‘into the wild’, and at best treat her like a puppy. (That almost fits and is ironic in its own weird way since Mike is the most terrified of her I guess and with yes, ‘extended’ canon information and trailers- he is scared of dogs! I would fear for him in an Up crossover idea, because Dug would no doubt mistake him for the best and biggest tennis ball ever, which probably wouldn’t help. :stuck_out_tongue:)

While they possibly should guess through the architecture- it seems however some monsters haven’t caught onto this scarers (Sulley) included (before he hung out with Boo longer at any rate). Perhaps this could be considered a plot point forgotten about, a joke they threw in without thinking about or something to that effect which is unfortunatly not uncommon in this movie- but it’s in canon so we have to make sense of it in-universe I suppose you could say. And Sulley and Mike, treat her like an animal, yet they are a scarer and a scare assistant. Granted a part of me did once write a short piece on this once, where it was something scarers at one point questioned in their minds this idea, but always eventually put to the side, because everyone ‘knew’ they were just animals, and they were probably just being ‘silly’ in some way- despite the fact almost everyone had questioned this, societies perceptions meant they thought that personally they were just wrong themselves and what society was saying was right and never said it outloud because they considered it crazy. I personally can see that happening- I mean it’s questioning something which could almost be considered dogma, like the idea of toxicity- despite evidence to the contary in some form. Ther’s also the issue of them entering human kid’s bedrooms to start with, I mean… adults entering the rooms of children- or at least something they’d consider equal to that, if they did?

That’s… well, it’s a bit questionable, even when it’s laughter they’re after as the rhyme now goes. If humans discover monsters and their own sentience, uh, yeah, well you wouldn’t be happy if some guy entered a kid’s room just to make them scream/laugh, it just seems way too inappropriate.

The communism itself is an interesting idea (to randomly jump to Nexas here)- you know there was this guy under Communist Russia in agriculture once, who tried to establish is own ideas as ‘dogma’ almost and what to do as policy? He clearly had no idea how science worked, because when people questioned his ideas (as science is wont to do and… he made a fair few mistakes)… things went badly for these people I’ll just say. (At least I believe it was under Russian communism, I am in fact recalling information from lectures several years ago, so… uh, anyone correct me if I’m wrong here).

As for Harry Potter I guess you could say it’s just a gag, in the universe say where they are actors like in the outtakes, or for an in-universe example, perhaps someone makes a habit of going into the human world and stealing their ideas and making big bucks and the idea of humans not being unable to come up with that thing benefits them- I mean it’s possible their ‘Harry Potter’ is a big hairy monster like Sulley maybe.

Because you have a point, architecture and ignoring it is pretty bad on their part… but literature too?! There’s only so far the mind is willing to stretch. Yet indeed is does stretch if Sulley and Mike are any indication it seems…

I do think -some- monsters know the truth, just the average citizen, not to mention even scarer doesn’t seem to acknowledge this idea in the beginning at the very least.

#16

Hm hm. Oh Mental, that tennis ball bit heh heh…kudus to you, gold plated joke there :slight_smile:

Whoa. Somebody actually listened to me in a long post? 0_0 Wow.
But yes, I can also cite an even earlier example. Lets see…I think it Galileo. With his whole “Experimentation” thing, making the basis for the scientific method. But his “opponent” was the Church, who’s ideals were absolute. Galileo stepped aside his beliefs, despite being right. If he hadn’t, Church or not, I doubt he would have lived longer.

One could also think it’s a fair amount of “conditioning” as well. Anybody ever see The Island? Yeah, Steve Buscemi is in it. Anyway. They condition these “clones” to believe the world has been ravaged by nuclear war, and that they are “survivors”, when in actuality they are “body parts for sale”.
Gruesome story, but anyways back to it. The point is, they were conditioned to believe. And out of hundreds of them, only one broke the ground to question things, albeit hardly believed (not to mention he mingled with a “real” person, one who knew, but withheld, the truth).
Monster children are probably told by their parents, who were conditioned themselves, with stories of humans.
Sullivan and Wazowski most likely believe them, having parents of their own.
Waternoose? Oh come now, that old codger is so old, he would have figured it out himself if his officials didn’t let him in.
Randall? Well…doubt he had the “parents” to tell him the story. If not that, Waternoose told him, or he had his suspicions from the beginning.