I’m not a filmschool critic, I just… don’t really like Avatar. <_<
Interesting overlap here…Kimba the White Lion was part of my childhood, and I recall the buzz about that when The Lion King was released. The Washington Post (or maybe it was The Times) made significant mention of the similarities at the time. Also, James Earl Jones was on the record saying something to the effect of, “Nobody works for Disney for the money.” It may well have been that Disney lowballed TLK (compared to Pocahontas) and was flying under the radar with it until its success was proven…which it was (the Elton John songs actually did a lot for it…very heavy airplay). Most significantly, TLK had legs over a long period, and now any fuss is swept under the carpets of time. Personally, I think TLK is a good film that stands on its own, although I had to see it through my kids’ eyes to give it a fair shake because of all the history.
I think the “influences” game is a pretty level playing field by now. Some folks here have commented on how there are only so many stories and any animation studio is just reinvigorating them. That’s a fair viewpoint, and it probably wouldn’t be useful to argue that originality is a defining aspect of “quality,” Pixar or otherwise. One question that pops up is whether any of the newer animation studios have threatened (or taken) legal action against “idea thieves.” In Disney’s case, that’s arguably a double standard that feeds into perceptions of them as an evil empire. But assuming studios like Pixar, Ghibli, DreamWorks, or Blue Sky are at opposite ends of the “quality” spectrum from Video Brinquedo, it would be interesting to learn their take on when homage or idea borrowing crosses the line and turns into misappropriation. My best guess at this point is that they take the high road and leave it alone.
Despite it’s questionable originality, it’s still a wonderful feature. The art, the animation, the voices, the story, the songs, the score… everything is epic to me. 
Kimba the White Lion is actually mentioned on the special features of the Lion King DVD, if my memory serves me right. I’m going to have to look that up again…
Yep, I remember reading that. The veteren animators who were given a choice choose to go to Pocahontas, thinking it would be bigger (which makes sense, this is after The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, another romance film with a heroine? They’d rather do that then Hamlet with lions)
Just goes to show that you can never truly judge the success of a film until after it comes out. I was expecting Tangled to be a flop, but I loved it!
Czarine: As you can tell from my avatar, I love The Lion King as well. I can’t decide which I like better TLK or WALL-E.
Well that’s great! 
After our VHS recorder died last year, I immediately bought the double DVD, because I didn’t want to lose this movie. 
I still got the VHS tape somewhere…in the attic! 
dun dun dunnn
Really? I don’t have the DVD, I needs it! My mom gave away all of our VHSs, but I managed to save one- The Lion King. But it’s virtually useless, I have to VHS player! It’s lame, and The Lion King is literally one of the only Disney movies that isn’t uploaded on youtube!
I know you aren’t, and you’re entitled to that opinion. I was just poking fun at the fact that a lot of snooty critics didn’t like Avatar because it had a big budget, was directed by a famous person (and not a starving independent), had cutting-edge technology, and a familiar storyline. I judge a film based on its merits; whether it entertained me, and if it is telling a classic story, whether it managed to turn it into something new and wonderful. Not whether or not it had a miniscule budget, or whether the director is a relative unknown, or how well-received it was in some exclusive film festival that most people outside the inner circle would never get the chance to attend.
Again, I’m not saying you’re a snotty film critic, Czarine. I just have a disdain for those who are.
The Lion King was a prime example of unintentional appropriation. I’m not sure whether the Disney creators were aware of the Tezuka classic, or if they had watched it and subconsciously aped certain aspects of it. But it is important to acknowledge the predecessors that came before you (which they did on the DVD according to Czarine, so good on’ em). If anything, The Lion King has a closer plotline to another classic, Will Shakespeare’s Macbeth. 
As I’ve said many times before on this forum, there is nothing original nowadays, and Pixar is no exception. It’s how you tell it in your own words and with your heart that matters.
Hamlet, actually. (I knows my Shakespeare)
Whatever the evolution was (we’ll never really know), Disney was very aware of Kimba, and at one point actually considered buying the rights to it. All of which came out at the time of TLK’s release, and folks who were “into” animation and film were rather irritated. Here’s a link that might shed some light:
Even so, tdit, in general I agree with your take on telling it with your heart.
And, Czarine, I think the frame grabs at the top of the page/link above are from the DVD extras you mentioned.
Thanks for the vote of support!
TDIT = EPIC FAIL! XD
It is indeed Hamlet. Which they also discussed in 1 of the many ‘how it’s made’-style DVD features. It is their take on the story… but then with lions and songs made by Elton John. XD
I personally like Avatar. Like, I almost cried when that jerk-off shot at the tree. I can see why people dislike it, but I didn’t find it disappointing. I was surprised, but in a good way.
Anyways, I’m really tired of all the Dream Works hate. I get it!! It’s a Pixar forum. But does that make all the other studios evil?
No.
To be honest, there are some films from Disney, Dreamworks, and others that made my jaw drop. SOme of their films (Kung Fu Panda, Tangled, Princess and Frog) I like better than PIxar Films.
I agree. I was actually rooting for Princess and the Frog instead of Up at the Oscars last year.
I was rooting for Coraline. The darkest of dark horses, because Fantastic Mr. Fox was the safer choice in case of a voting clash between Best Pic and Best Animated.
And I don’t know if you guys know this, but Henry Selick has recently hired Lou Romano at his newly opened Cinderbiter Productions.
Surely, nothing but good can come from this.
I did hear about Romano working at Cinderbiter, I can’t wait to see what he’ll be working on there. I’m sad to say that I haven’t seen Coraline or Fatnastic Mr. Fox yet. But I want to!
WHAT?! That’s awesome. He’s very talented.
I wouldn’t say I liked Coraline more than Up, but it was a great one. In my opinion, it’s THE best movie from the last 5 years that’s not made by Pixar.
Hmmm strange, I saw Coraline and it was nice but imo it wasn’t really all that special, especially compared to Up. I think Up deserved the Oscar last year. The Princess and the Frog was a wonderful movie I really adored, but I adored Up more.
To each his/her own, I guess.
I wasn’t really enthusiastic about any film winning that year to be honest, Up included. I wasn’t blown away by the time the awards came around at all by anything and didn’t think Up deserved their other nomination. Though it seemed inevitable in any case that they’d win- Up was nominated best picture. I did though enjoy Coraline more myself though and think it’s overall a good film, I didn’t think it was best thing outside of Pixar myself. (I love the first Ice Age too much for that in any case).
I think some Dreamworks as well as a few other features are really like that, and SOME of them better than a lot of Pixar films though maybe not every single one. But overall I would put Coraline on the lower-mid-level of Pixar level enjoyability I guess for me ( style is not an issue- just scale of… how enjoyable I found it). And once again- one of those things Pixar would find hard pressed pull off themselves (even in terms of storyline) in terms of their own style and preferences and restrictions! The cat is not a character I could see them having. At all. Or at least not yet.
I quite like the ‘Tale of Despereaux’ myself. I know it’s faced criticism here but I actually loved it, though I don’t think it’s something you can get into automatically in the first viewing perhaps. But it was also something else I really liked I could never see Pixar making unless something changes in the future.
Overall, almost every company has something to offer so far I think, even Vanguards Valiant was passable despite the terrible Space Chimps, and it’s not like it’s utterly impossible Pixar won’t ever pull a Disney of some description themselves as mentioned before and while still make money, meet a wider variety of criticism from professional critquers not doing so for shock tactics and attention (Armond, I’m looking at you). The competition is getting much better and more varied which is only a good thing for us viewers. The proof is in the pudding- Pixar’s way of telling a story isn’t the only good way- and heck in my case it doesn’t even mean I’ll always forever and ever be blown away by Pixar’s definitive style. I’ve been a bit disappointed before after all.
I personally liked Up better than Coraline and a million times more than PatF(not even close to close). However, I think every company can be good. Depends on the ideas and directors, not the company.