Well you are absolutely right about darkness existing in real life. But I don’t think that evil antagonists potray that darkness. This “these are the good guys - that’s the bad guy” dualism is an old, unrealistic world view. There are no obvious super evil characters in the real world. Modern movies should be about battling ideas, not physical people. It’s never as easy as he’s the bad guy, he deserves what’s coming to him and teaching our children that might come with dire consequences.
zinem: i actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying, and i’m wondering if that makes me a hypocrite, lol. i mean, i <3 classic disney films and usually the villain just falls off of/over/out of something and dies, so. but i do agree with you.
does…does this even make sense?
however, i’m going to have to strongly disagree with the following -
a lot of them, definitely. but the likes of persepolis and mary & max? no. hahaa, i’m pretty sure you didn’t mean /all/ animation, but i’m just saying.
this is so interesting. you know what? i actually agree with this. completely. i just…never thought of it that way, but…hmm. that’s going to give me a lot to think about now, hahaa.
(btw, this is incredibly off-topic but since you mentioned bolt again, zinem, i just wanted to let you know i watched it this past weekend and loved it! <3)
lol okay back on topic now.
There are no terrorists that kill thousands of people in a single attack? There are not dictators that destroy their countries and their citizens in the most gruesome ways? There are no mobsters, and dealers and serial killers?
As someone who lives in a country that has been stricken by violence numerous times, I can ensure you, there’s real evil in this world.
PS: Sorry if this came as a completely disagreement. You made some good points. It’s just that I’ve seen this darkness (so many countries have) and I think it’s important for every child to learn about it. After all, kids literature has always been the first one to portray it.
Yeah…besides, there can’t be evil without the good, or good without the evil.
Hey, SullyMike. I’ve noticed you often post things like that one.
There’s one specific rule of Pixar Planet that says this:
Please take this in consideration 
I’m sorry…sometimes I’m tired or too lazy to word things–but I won’t do it again.
^ This. I totally agree. Too many cartoons nowadays have one-dimensional villains that the progatonist has to defeat. For ONCE, I’d like to see a dragon, bear, boogie monster, class bully, etc. that has a backstory and is capable of goodness.
One of my favourite episodes from The Simpsons was when Lisa learnt about Nelson Muntz’ background (he lives in a rundown neighbourhood, has little parental supervision, etc.). People are not born evil. We are all capable of evil. But whether we choose to become evil is largely shaped by our personal experiences, the company we keep, the way we are brought up, etc.
It is also another reason why I find My Little Ponies: Friendship is Magic so refreshing for a cartoon for ‘children’. Nightmare Moon, the antagonist in the pilot, has a backstory, a motivation for being evil. Various ‘baddies’ throughout the series sometimes learn their errors (or like Griffin and Trixie, don’t). Some of them (like the manticore and sea serpent in ‘Friendship is Magic Part 2’ and the dragon in ‘Dragonshy’) are defeated by mindful kindness and tactful negotiation, not with swords and guns.
I’m not saying that words or kindness alone will vanquish our enemies. I’m also aware that some people, to quote Alfred the Butler, “can’t be reasoned with”.
But I’m all for cartoons which propose an alternative to violent confrontation, and advocate conversation and understanding.
I had a rather thorough and interesting debate with another member in the MLP: FIM thread that you might be interested to read about. It elaborates more on my points.
It seems that some of your personal opinion about the political situation in your country is seeping through into the conversation. I totally understand that. Sometimes it can feel very frustrating when the sytem is rigged against good people, and some people simply have to be locked away forever (I stop short of murder, because to kill another human being doesn’t make you any better than them). And before you think I’m being patronising, let me tell you that my country is known for government corruption, oppression against minority races, and a questionable judiciary system (Go ahead and google ‘Altantuyaa’ or ‘Anwar Ibrhaim’).
But I don’t believe cartoons should further this cause of “An eye for an eye” or “We need to fight fire with fire”. We don’t need to sink to the villain’s level or go back to prehistoric (and often xenophobic) moral values taught in fairy-tale in the 21st century.
We change the world by first changing ourselves. Yes, terrorists/despots/corrupt politicians deserve to be brought to justice. I agree, there should be some episodes of the shows where you simply have to take down the monster.
But all too often, that is portrayed is the only solution in contemporary cartoons. How cool the hero can slice or beat the enemy to a pulp, like Samurai Jack or Powerpuff Girls. Of course, some people get carthatic thrills and some visceral sense of sadistic entertainment out of watching the bad guy get his comeuppance (I am sometimes guilty of this too, of this ‘schadenfreude’ feeling of *ss-kicking).
But it is important that children learn love and compassion. Violence should never be the first, much less, the only option. It should be the last resort. Modern cartoon heroes simply skip the negotiation and non-lethal methods and go straight to the (cartoon) guns or kung-foolery or magic blue bolts of thunder. And it hurts me to see such cruel values being taught to our next generation of leaders.
…
To use an example to illustrate my point, there’s a scene at Kung Fu Panda’s climax where Tai Lung trashes his former master Shifu to a pulp, because of his bitterness and grief at not being chosen as the ‘Dragon Master’ over the newcomer Tigress. Shifu, beaten to within an inch of his life, finds the strength to apologize to Tai Lung, and ask for forgiveness. Tai Lung had his chance to stop and walk away. But he blew it (by lifting his paw for the death blow). So Po had to step in and stop Tai Lung once and for all with his power of ‘fatness’, Wushu Finger Hold, etc.
Another example: Dragonshy episode from MLP: FIM. Ponyville is threatened by darkness from a snoring dragon in the mountains. The ponies go on a quest to stop this monster, and try a variety of methods upon meeting him.
Some try flattery. Some try convoluted-reasoning. Some go for all-out violence.
But Fluttershy is the one who manages to defeat the dragon by stating her offer strong and firmly, then lowering to a ‘compassionate adult’ state (one of the tactics hostage negotiators use to deal with highly-strung suspects).
We need more clever storylines like this, where we show the other side of the villain. Why they do what they do. Have they been betrayed or hurt before?
And then we need the hero to admit his faults. That he has wronged the villain, or that he asks the villain nicely to stop and think of the consequences. Go non-lethal. Try strategic negotiation and defensive combat.
If all else fails, then, and only then, do we go on the offensive.
I have never watched MLP: Friendship is Magic. What channel’s it on?
I agree with this. But I never spoke about how evil is created. I just said it exists, and you did also.
While I won’t deny thinking that we’ve been victims of undeniable evil, the first examples I used were from all around the world, not my country. Most of you may not know about our situation, but we’ve been forced to learn all kinds of international situations.
I never discussed the role of the hero. I agree he should keep his moral stand and never lower to the level of the antagonist. I just think the presence of an evil villain is not a bad thing. What you need is a hero that makes a good decision about what to do with him.
I feel the same way.
Right, true. Of course all animation isn’t exclusively for children. Some of it is supposed to be child-friendly though. Bad formulation, simply. Actually, if I had read anyone else writing what I wrote I’d probably react like you did. ^^
Hehe, thanks. 
Well yeah, it’s something that I’ve thought about a bit, this whole thing about antagonists and protagonists.
(PS: Yeah, Bolt is such a cute and warm film^^)
That’s absolutely true. But while I admit that the worst excesses of many tragedies can be laid directly at the feet of one or two men sometimes, it is seldom that easy. Most problems are very complicated and just defeating one single guy is never enough. Nor can one single person often be blamed for it all. Criminality is the result of social factors. Protestation can never be solved by going after the prostitutes, seeing as they are the victims. I’m sure you can think of many other examples.
Besides, the biggest problems of today are very complex. I’m talking about pollution, poverty, overpopulation, problems that cannot be solved by just killing the bad guy, they need delicate and patient solutions. So, by making movie’s where the main characters need to deal with more complex problems is key. And as already proven, there are several examples of such movies.
Anyway, I don’t mean to be rude. You are entitled to your opinion and it is very well justified. I just wanted to clarify what I meant
Well, I couldn’t agree more (obviously) ^^
I’m actually not to happy with my formulation before and was afraid that I a lot of people would misunderstand me. It makes me happy that you DID understand and agreed, even though you found words to express what I tried to write down but couldn’t quite put into words quite as masterfully as you did. Indeed, people are not born evil - they become evil.
Also, something I forgot to mention that I love in movies is when the main character has to fight against, not a physical threat, but a part of his/her self. There are many animated movies in which the main characters biggest hinder is himself and I think that this is a very suitable scenario. All children will have to deal with personal issues so having main characters that aren’t always perfect and ideal, aren’t always confident and right about everything - is a great thing. And it also makes for very deep and believable character development!
Anyway, I’ll check out that my little pony thread.
I agree with you. Those complex problems shall be portrayed in movies, and they have been. I just meant that those who deal just with evil characters can be equally good, as they’re also valid threads.
And you weren’t rude at all. You made very good and justified opinions in a very respectful way. It was actually fun to discuss this matter with you!
I hope I didn’t seem rude in turn. I’ve been a little on the edge lately 
All good then:)
And no, of course you weren’t rude in return. In fact, you were right about evil characters existing in real life.
Oh, okay. Why is that? =/
Oh, nothing within the forums. Just stress in real life.
I agree with that, but what I’m proposing is that children’s TV shows should explore the nature of that evil. Is it a ‘necessary evil’, or justified in special circumstances. If someone kills another in self-defense, is it evil? Or if a person’s family is being held hostage and he has to commit a great evil to save them? You know, questionable morality issues like that. Things are seldom black and white, and we need to give children more credit that what we think they are capable of understanding. And these can be demonstrated in non-violent or dramatic ways that would be family-friendly. You know, like maybe a character is being bullied or something, and then we learn that the bully is actually a victim himself or something like that. Kids are able to pick up on that, and we need to encourage such questions, instead of “That monster’s evil, let’s see how cool the hero can cut him/her down to size”.
I apologize for my misunderstanding. Well, yes, I can see how you are being frustated by other international incidents as well, and that’s perfectly alright. Some of the injustice and unfairness in other countries also gets my bile rising as well, and I totally emphatise with that.
As I have said in my previous posts, I’m not so much against the presence of a villain, but rather, that we should have more complex and interesting villains than simple, one-dimensional ones.
And of course, what constitues a ‘good decision’? If a hero locks the bad guy away forever, is it really the best option? Or if he kills the bad guy? Or if he uses some form of leverage (like exploiting the bad guy’s weakness)? Could he have solved the problem by being friends with the villain? It’s not as outrageous or unreasonable as it seems. I have seen a couple of examples done in some cartoons, but unfortunately in contemporary kids’ shows, these are far and few in between.
Well, for one thing, one thing I can’t stand in animation is that their cahracters aren’t real. SOmetimes, they create a attractive character so well that I get turned on then realize their they’re only animated characters.
To carry on from TSS’ point, one thing I can’t stand is that the real world is not like a cartoon. People use stronger swear words, are much evil than most cartoon characters (although some come pretty close to real-life baddies), heroes aren’t that invincible, etc.
I sometimes wish I was an OC who could inhabit the world of some of my fandoms. But of course, I realise that I can vicariously live that through fanfiction and fanart, and I feel a bit better.
I’ve been attracted to several cartoon characters, but never directly turned on by them. 
But, I’ve always wished the Incredibles were real, and that I could be part of their family. I would be so happy!
Fanboy and Chum Chum.