hug everyone
I’m sorry. And aero, don’t feel bad. You’re right.
I think aerostarmonk is merely stating his opinion. I personally don’t like the idea of including more categories any more than keeping ‘Best Foreign’ or ‘Best Documentary’. The Academy Awards is suppose to represent the best of film, internationally, period. But in the real world, we know there’s a bias for American-made, Hollywood-produced films (or American independents). Hence, we have to create separate categories for ‘foreign’ films, ‘documentaries’ and ‘animated films’.
If the Oscars so proclaims itself as the definitive judge of good movies, it should aim to be inclusive and not divisive. But the old, self-congratulary, conservative Board members are too busy promoting their own interests (ie their own films) instead of recognising ‘niche’ markets.
So I’m going to have kindly disagree with you, aerostar, and counter that including more categories is gonna confuse things. The best step that the Academy took was in fact increasing the number of nominees for Best Pic. Movies that would have fallen by the wayside now get acknowledged, if only offered a ‘pity nom’. Segregating them into separate categories only results in ‘ghettosizing’ films that have just as much merits as others.
As a parable, if you guys have noticed, there have been changes to the Pixar Planet Awards, with us now accepting non-Pixar videos for the Video Category. We have also expanded the ‘Best Non-Pixar Artwork’ category into separate categories. Now I know this sounds exactly like aerostar’s strategy of expanding ‘Best Animated’ categories, but this an interim measure. Hopefully next year, there will be open-minded members who will love Pixar films, but appreciate films from other studios just as much too, and we won’t need such divisions to get just-as-awesome works recognised. And hopefully, the Academy can undergo a similar paradigm shift with regards to documentaries, international films, and animated films.
On a separate note, does anyone think that the quota for animated films is stupid? You can read the rules here, but basically if between 8 and 15 animated films are released in Los Angeles county (not Maine, not Virginia, not Caracas, not Sydney, oh no no no, it must be L.A.), there can only be 3 nominees. 16 and above, y’all get the generous total of 5. 
Of course, this rule cuts out worthy films like Tangled, or Legend of the Guardians, or Despicable Me, or Secret of the Kells. Need I go on?
I also highly recommend you read the comments in this Cartoon Brew article. The insights and discussions offered are nothing short of enlightening. 
^ I agree with some of that. But Secret of the Kells did made it last year!
^ Egads, my bad, SoA. 
Tell me, what parts don’t you agree with?
Haha. Never mind 
I’m not actually trying to segregate or ghettoizze anything. Simply pointing out that the merits we’re thinking of are somewhat analogous but ultimately separate from the categories that we’d want them to win for. Except for maybe visual effects. But seeing as an animated film can be interpreted as a whole cloth visual effect instead of a simple enhancement that part kind of falls apart as well.
The camera work in an animated film is wholly different than the camera work involved in a live action film other than the effects both are trying to achieve. Because except for a few more experimental films out there, the “camera” is inherent in the animation as opposed to what’s used to capture and enhance the film with live-action. So once again there are similar merits but so radically different that both should have their day in the sun without direct competition with the other.
Same goes for voice acting. By now we’ve seen tons of examples of fairly charismatic and entertaining film actors who simply put in mediocre performances as voice actors. That’s because what’s involved with both is so incredibly different that the only thing shared by the two is that they require good performances to come across as completely effective. I mean if the Oscars included something like say, theatrical acting, would you have them stack theatrical performances with onscreen performances. I wouldn’t think so. Both are comparable, but not to the point where you could truly pit them against each other without losing a lot of what makes someone great in either.
However, I do agree that all other sub categories should probably be done away with. One could make an argument for Animated Film as a medium, but since Foreign Languages and Documentaries aren’t mediums at all (admittedly if you talk to a linguist the foreign language thing is debatable but linguists don’t work for AMPAS and vice versa so that argument does not enter this dojo) the fact that they exist seems rather suspect.
The Oscars aren’t actually that American-centric as they are Anglophone-centric as I had previously stated. As many of the films that have been nominated over the past couple of decades have little to no American involvement outside of distribution or investment.
In fact on some of the film forums I frequent it’s something of inside joke that every year the Academy will nominate a film about some foreign political figure that no one has ever heard of.
I must humbly admit that my suggestions would work to the detriment of the show rather than to better it. My tech and performances category suggestion would look and most likely would function as something of an “Shut up and appreciate what you have” dumpster bin. And the abolition of the other categories would mean good films would not only walk away with nothing (which is bad) but would escape the public eye entirely (which is much much worse).
The thought of which is worse than Lex Luthor stealing 40 cakes. That’s as much as 4 tens! And that’s terrible.
It’s understandable, I think. Los Angeles is where AMPAS is located so naturally they would want their members to be able to have easy access to any films they nominate.
The animation quota kind of makes sense seeing that even with the expansion to 10 nominees for best picture, it’s still less than 5% of the total number of movies released this year whereas 5 nominees out of 15 entries for animated is 33% (and even just 3 noms is still 20%). It’s unfortunate that there were plenty more worthy nominees this year but snubs are always going to happen, and animation isn’t always at the top of its game every year such as in 2005 and 2006.
If there’s anyone to blame for this, it’s The Weinstein Company, who were supposed to release Hoodwinked 2 last January but got into a legal battle with the film’s production company.
Actually now I’ve read your earlier posts higher up the last page, and I do agree with EJE that you’ve gotta not be so defensive, aerostar. Nobody’s tarring or feathering you (unless you were joking there).
I do agree with you, though, aerostar, that TS3 pretty much shut out Tangled’s chances inadvertently. Although EJE says that it’s the adacemy’s decision, I think it’s partly the rules as well which allow double-noms. Ultimately, I’m very bitter that Tangled (and a couple of other animated films) didn’t get a mention.
And you’ve made some valid points. It’s like trying to compare apples and potatos. Both are fruits, but they have different method of reproduction, different ‘tastes’, go well with different food items… I suppose I can consider the idea for ‘Voice Acting’, which has its own dynamics. I still think that Best Animation, Best Documentary and Best Foreign should not exist if the Oscars truly wants to call itself an inclusive, international judge of cinematic quality. A film is a film. Lest we want to end up with a Nobel Peace Prize and Confucius Peace Prize scenario…
Good point about the percentage comparisons, tribefan. I do suppose animated films have it easier than live-action. Of course, I would prefer if they weren’t judged on separate merits, but at the moment, yeah, I think 20% is much kinder than 5%. I don’t think we should blame Weinstein for calling off production, and instead look at the fact that the Academy could have not included this quota to begin with.
It would be nice if the geographic area was expanded to include at least the whole of the United States, so that films that have a limited release would stand a chance. I mean, I know L.A. is the film capital of the world (next to Bollywood), but Japanese and other foreign films are always nominated a year or so late after their initial release, so it’s not really a true reflection of ‘The Best of 2010’ per se.
Oh really now? 
Actually, after a quick Google, I’ve realised I’m kinda wrong. Potatoes produce fruits, but we eat the tuber part of it, making it mostly a vegetable.
Is a potato a fruit or vegetable?
But you get my drift. Just because they are both acting methods, doesn’t mean they should be judged on the same criteria.
Hey, in the next PP Awards, you should add the Most Controversial Thread category. This one could be nominated 
Haha, if I’m still around or organising next year’s Awards, that is. But if you’re hanging around till then, it would be cool if you could remember to suggest to the next organisers.
Haha. I was joking. Organizing a Most Controversial award will prove to be… very controversial.
It was part joke, part real argument. Just felt a little cornered is all.
Peace Prize is actually the most apt analogy. It’s more of a popularity contest vanity prize to attract the attention of the layman rather than anything having to do with actual achievement. It’s essentially Time’s “Man of the Year” with a million dollar prize. Not to say that there haven’t been worthy recipients. But really, this is the wrong place to discuss humanitarian issues.
Besides, I’m still upset that Toy Story 3 got nominated for both the Nobel Prize in Chemistry and the Nobel Prize in Physics. It’s either one or the other.
I mean it functions well as a theory in chemistry but doesn’t quite have all the necessary components to qualify it as a valid entry in the field of physics.
And it knocked Tangled right out of the race for physics! And I felt that HTTYD made much more progress with its work in previously unseen experiments as opposed to TS3’s building on the foundation of already existing hypotheses.
Come on, Nobel! What are you doing?!
Ok, I take that back. It seriously is very controversial. But not as much as some of the Cars threads
The film was finished and ready to be released, they just got into a legal tussle. Funny thing about it is they didn’t call off a Burger King tie-in, so Hoodwinked toys were put in kids meals in January for seemingly no reason.
I wouldn’t know which threads to nominate, there are so many worthy contenders for ‘Most Controversial’
That must’ve been weird.
“There’s a sequel out now? Cool!”
runs to theatres
“What? It’s been cancelled? But I just bought the movie tie-in!”
cries into fries
Does anybody know what date and channel the Oscars will be on ??
Don’t they ussually air on a weekend in February ?
The awards will be aired live on ABC on Sunday Feb. 27th.