Evolution and Creation

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#1

Continuation of Creation V.S. Evolution

please don’t raise anger with posts…

Here is my first proof.

The oldest living tree in the world, a California Bristlecone pine, is dated at 4,300-4,400 years old. Why is there not an older tree?

The Great Barrier Reef in Australia, the world’s oldest reef, has been determined to be about 4,300 years old. Why isn’t there an older reef?

Nebraska man, a supposed link between ape and man, was fabricated from a single tooth. A stooped body covered with hair and a primitive face was fabricated to show his closeness in appearance to an ape. Volumes have been written about his physical and mental capabilities. Years later, the tooth was determined to be a pig tooth.

The sun is slowly losing both mass and diameter each year. Every hour it shrinks about two feet in diameter or 0.4% each thousand years. If the earth is 6,000 years old, the sun has shrunk approximately 2.4%, not a problem. However, if the earth were 4.5 billion years old as evolutionists claim, the sun initially would have been double its present diameter. More importantly, 30 million years ago the surface of the sun would have touched the earth. Life couldn’t have existed on earth even one million years ago. It would have been too hot.

I’ve got lots left in the bag if you don’t “like these”

#2

I guess to the first two, I’d have to say, because older trees and reefs have died. Just like any living organism, trees and reefs have a life span, and although in the case of the trees and reef mentioned, they’ve clearly had a very long lifespan, nothing lives forever.

The Nebraska man thing was clearly a mistake, and mistakes happen. People used to believe that the Earth was flat because they had no proof to believe otherwise, but when the proof came that the Earth is indeed spherical, people changed their viewpoints (eventually).

I couldn’t really say about the sun one, aside from that it’s not actually been proven that the sun is shrinking. It’s a pretty heavy debate, but in Physics, we were told something about Mercury and the data recorded over the past couple of hundred of years as Mercury is in transit (directly betweent the sun and the Earth). According to that data, the sun isn’t shrinking. But it’s pretty difficult to tell without actually going up there and taking a look. :laughing:

I love this kind of debate. I know it’s difficult to do this sort of thing without offending people, yadda yadda yadda, but I think it’s absolutely fascinating. After all, both sides are technically just ‘theories’, right? I just love how the human brain has developed itself to the point where we’re questioning our own existence. It’s the ultimate pinnacle of human psychology, I think.

#3

I moved this post here from the “Sarah Palin and Republicans” thread. Basically, it’s my response to anyone who believes in the theory of evolution:

All right. You want proof that this world we live in didn’t come about by some explosion of a few dust particles? Go outside your house or look out your window. Go on. Look! Now you tell me that some “accident” created those trees out there. You tell me that this Earth we live in contains just enough – no, more than enough – nutrients, minerals, and water to sustain us. You tell me that we live in an environment that is systemically designed to support us with enough oxygen, carbon dioxide, and other essential ingredients – ones that we’d die without had they not been there. You tell me that our planet is situated just close enough to the sun so we don’t freeze, yet not so close that we become a victim of the undeniable circumstances and burn to death. You-tell-me that this was all an accident…

“Big Bang Theory” my butt. I don’t usually engage in discussions like this, but hey, it’d be a miracle indeed if some explosion in space caused all this to happen. There had to have been something to start that explosion to begin with, so where did that force of nature originate? And I don’t care if anyone says that, “Oh, it took so-and-so “billion” years for the Earth to become situated in this spot, or for animals to evolve into other species until we eventually became a product of chance.” Uh-huh. Yeah. Right? No! If one creature evolved into another, then why aren’t they still doing it now? If that happened, then why did the process stop? Huh? I dare scientists to keep searching for an answer, and heck, they’re gonna do it, because they’ve been doing it for years and years already and they’re not gonna stop.

Open the Book, read the first sentence of the first chapter of the first book. “In the beginning…” Now go to the third verse of that chapter: “Then God said,…” There ya’ have it! The proof? Well, there is none, really, unless you look out your window… You just have to believe it. Of course the principle of faith makes no sense! That’s why it’s faith! I use it all the time because, every single time, it works.

– Mitch

#4

Al-Bob - Heheh. I beat you to it. Do you mind if I delete your post (above) so as we don’t have a second copy of my message? :wink:

– Mitch

#5

go right ahead mitch…man i thought i had you there.

#6

Just moving my post from the other thread, too. :smiley:

An utterly fascinating debate. Yes, controversial, but if everyone believed the same things, then wouldn’t the world be a boring place?

I would like to pose a question to anyone who believes in either Creationism or Evolution (so this includes myself). What do your parents believe? Do you believe the same theory as them?

If I were brought up as Christian, I’d most probably be for Creationism. As it happens, I was brought up in a non-religious family in very non-religious surroundings. I therefore believe the theory of Evolution. I guess it makes more sense to me- I’ve always loved my sciences, including Physics, from a very young age, so something like the Big Bang Theory just seems to work.

There’s definitely points for both sides here. I guess I’d have to say, in reference to the idea of ‘the world is so beautiful, how could it just happen like that without any outside intereference from a God or Gods?’, my reply would be, by chance. There’s a very, very small chance of a planet being able to sustain life in the way that our world does. Minutely small. But there’s a chance, right? Roll a dice 1 billion times, there’s a chance you’ll get ten sixes in a row. It’s small, but it’s possible.

As for evolution suddenly stopping, well, it hasn’t. A couple of hundred years ago, humans were, on average, a fair bit shorter than we are now. Our thumbs have grown longer to accomodate their more frequent use. There are also examples in the animal world as well- certain creatures devolving, as such, in situations such as eternal darkness, where they become blind but their other senses are heightened. That sort of thing.

I’ve never read the Bible front to back myself, but I just can’t get hold of the idea of a bunch of people writing a book and it being true. And the belief in God generates questions such as, ‘where did God come from?’ and ‘if God exists, why is there evil in the world?’ Frequently asked questions, I’m sure.

Anyway, as I said, I’ve been brought up to be on the ‘side’ of evolution, as such. I personally know one religious person, and she’s undecided between creationism and evolution. If I told anyone I know that I believed in the word of the Bible, it’s sad to say, but they’d most likely mock me. It’s just not something people around here ‘do’.

Personally, I like to think I’m open-minded. I’m always happy to think about new ideas and see how they fit in with the world today, and I’d never rule creationism out just because it’s a theory, as everything I believe is a theory too.

#7

Creation Evidence - A Few Brief Examples:

Lack of Transitional Fossils. Charles Darwin wrote, “Lastly, looking not to any one time, but to all time, if my theory be true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking closely together all the species of the same group, must assuredly have existed. But, as by this theory, innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” (Origin of Species, 1859). Since Darwin put forth his theory, scientists have sought fossil evidence indicating past organic transitions. Nearly 150 years later, there has been no evidence of transition found thus far in the fossil record.
Lack of a Natural Mechanism. Charles Darwin, in his Origin of Species, proposed Natural Selection to be the mechanism by which an original simple-celled organism could have evolved gradually into all species observed today, both plant and animal. Darwin defines evolution as “descent with modification.” However, Natural Selection is known to be a conservative process, not a means of developing complexity from simplicity. Later, with our increased understanding of genetics, it was thought perhaps Natural Selection in conjunction with genetic mutation allowed for the development of all species from a common ancestor. However, this is theoretical and controversial, since “beneficial” mutations have yet to be observed. In fact, scientists have only observed harmful, “downward” mutations thus far.
Time Constraints. Both Creationists and Evolutionists agree that if evolution is at all possible, there needs to be an excessive (if not infinite) amount of time. For much of the 20th century, it was thought evolutionists had all the time they needed. If the earth ever looked too young for certain evolutionary developments to have occurred, the age was pushed back in the textbooks. In 1905, the earth was declared to be two billion years old. By 1970, the earth was determined to be 3.5 billion years old, and by the 1990’s, the earth had become 4.6 billion years old. However, Young Earth advocates have identified quite a few Young Earth chronometers in recent years. Currently, there are approximately five times more natural chronometers indicating a “Young Earth” than an “Old Earth.” Each discovery is a separate “Limiting Factor” that places a constraint on the possible age of the earth. For example, moon drift, earth rotation speed, magnetic field decay, erosion rates, chemical influx into the oceans, ocean salinity, etc, all constrain the possible age of the earth. Each Limiting Factor is distinct. If one were successfully challenged, there is still the problem of all the rest. Furthermore, there are Limiting Factors constraining the possible age of the universe, such as spiral galaxies where they’re maintaining their spiral shapes despite their centers spinning faster than their extremities.
Unacceptable Model of Origins. The Big Bang Theory is the accepted source of Origins among the majority of Evolutionists, and is taught in our public schools. However, the Big Bang does not explain many things, including the uneven distribution of matter that results in “voids” and “clumps,” or the retrograde motion that must violate the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum. Furthermore, the Big Bang does not address the primary question at hand, “where did everything come from?” Did nothing explode? How did this explosion cause order, while every explosion observed in recorded history causes disorder and disarray?

#8

Mmm. Well, that’s understandable. The environment one’s raised in and the beliefs his (or her) parents/relatives carry will undoubtedly affect that individual in some way. Still, there’s always personal opinion. Just because a child’s parents believe in one thing doesn’t mean that their child will accept it later on in life.

Mm-hm. And Who do you think created them to function that way and gave them attributes in the first place? The theory of adaptability is factual, but complete evolvement?

God always was. Hard to believe, but yes. Again, it’s just something one has to believe. I’m a Christian, so I find the whole thing entirely plausible. Our minds can’t fathom the idea of a supreme being just… being there from the beginning – at least, we can’t fathom it logically. It’s all a matter of faith. In my opinion, if scientists and others believe in the theory of chance creating Earth, why couldn’t it be possible for God to have just been there the whole time? :wink:

As for the second question, there’s a reason why there’s evil in the world, but we’d really be getting in deep if we dove into that pool. I can tell you, though, that the whole idea of “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” is absolute folly. (No, really, it is. If God loves us, then why would He want to “take us away” or kill us for no reason? It’s illogical.)

Just because “everybody doesn’t believe in it” doesn’t mean that it’s not true. You’re entitled to your own opinion. People may mock me because I’m a Christian, but do I care? Heck, no! I’m gonna believe what I believe in, regardless of whether or not others think I’m a joke.

– Mitch

#9

LizardGirl

My parents are converted chrisitans from a completely evolution extended family. My dad’s grandparents are for evolution and my mom’s dad totally believes it. My cousins are “christians” but they don’t really show it.

[QUOTE]

“There’s a very, very small chance of a planet being able to sustain life in the way that our world does. Minutely small. But there’s a chance, right? Roll a dice 1 billion times, there’s a chance you’ll get ten sixes in a row. It’s small, but it’s possible.”

Which is why i don’t believe it…it is so impossible that its mindboggling. I can’t get my brain around to even considering that chance…
example- the chance in scientific notation is as follows 1:10^50,000th power.
That would be 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000…but that is only 500 zero’s which means there are still 45,500 zeros still left in that number.

another example to put it into perspective is this…Evolutionary chances are the same as filling the earth with blue marbles…completely covering the earth. Then having someone blindfolded select one red marble from that mass of blue.

[QUOTE]

There are also examples in the animal world as well- certain creatures devolving, as such, in situations such as eternal darkness, where they become blind but their other senses are heightened. That sort of thing

Your are correct to an extent. Micro-Evolution is true and i accept that. But macro-evolution is totally false. There have been no evidence for species changing into other species.

[QUOTE]

I’ve never read the Bible front to back myself, but I just can’t get hold of the idea of a bunch of people writing a book and it being true. And the belief in God generates questions such as, ‘where did God come from?’ and ‘if God exists, why is there evil in the world?’ Frequently asked questions, I’m sure.

Which is why the bible is so astonishing. The range of authors in the bible include written by shephards, taxcollectors, fisherman, nomads, and prophets who worked for kings.
There are only 3 possibilities;
1-written by man and is true
2-written by man and is false
3-written by man inspired by God and is true

The Bible also lists countries we know of today becuase of archeology, and battles where skeletons are found today.

Edited by bawpcwpn. NB: Your 0’s were stretching the post

#10

Wow, we got another religous topic here on Pixar Planet! First the wallof prayer, now this!

Personally, I believe in the creation. First off, I am a christian. Second of all, I don’t believe that a “big bang” started life in our universe. WHen I heard that, I thught "Don’t explosions cause more damage than creating life?

#11

Ooh, this is getting interesting! Though, Al-Bob, do you mind editing your post so it isn’t stretching the page? It’s making the conversation a little difficult to read.

Mitch-

I’m just going to reply to your post point by point, instead of quoting you- I hope you know which bits I’m referring to.

Yes, that’s very true- a child may have beliefs independent of their parents or their surroundings. But on average, a child will believe what they are taught from a young age. It’s a sort of conditioning. If your parents smoke, you may not smoke, but there’s a much higher chance of you smoking later on in life.

Of course, in later life, when one has grown up and is now thinking independently of their parents, yes, someone can quite easily change their religious view points due to personal experience. But I think it’d be fair to say that on average, if you live in a heavily religious community, there is a higher liklihood of becoming religious yourself.

Oh, you mean from sort of nothingness, if you see what I mean? Well, the theory of evolution states that we’ve all evolved from microbes in the sea, which in turn have formed primitive aquatic life, moving on to reptiles, mammals and so forth. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, really. I guess I can see how it might be true- we do share a lot of monkey DNA, for example. Yet at the same time, it’s a pretty far-fetched idea.

The idea of God being there the whole time seems a little bit like a get-out clause, to me. Yes, it may be true. But I can’t help but question it- my mind naturally wants to think, ‘well, what happened before God?’ The answer could be nothing, could be infinity. Something like that. It just doesn’t seem like a solid explanation.

And very right of you to believe what you wish! From a psychological standpoint, ridiculing those who are ‘different’ happens so much in society, unfortunately, although it is another means of ‘survival of the fittest’.

I’m trying to do this all from a more psychological point of view. I can understand why people believe in creationism, and I can understand why people believe in evolution. I just think it’s incredible that our brains are so complex that we are able to question our own origins. But what would happen if we did indeed find ‘the answer’? Believing in God is probably the more hopeful, the more positive of the two options. If what the Bible says is generally true, there is hope for those that do good. If evolution and the scientific, atheist viewpoint is true, it doesn’t matter if you’re a good person or an evil person. You’ll die, and that’s it.

That’s what has led me to believe, personally, that religion is a form of evolution in itself. (Okay, it sounds stupid, but go with me on this one…) We have created religion, in all its various forms, so that good is rewarded and evil is punished (much like operant conditioning). This, in turn, actually helps our species prosper, as those doing bad things are, as a whole, being detrimental to the human population.

Just a little theory of mine. I’m going way off topic now, anyway. :laughing:

Al-Bob-

Well, that’s good that you believe what you want to believe in, instead of just doing as you’re told. But I assume you were brought up to pray, to attend church, possibly? My own father is Catholic, and the rest of the family on his side is very, very religious. My mother’s side is atheist, but they’re not really ‘pro-evolution’ either- they just haven’t really thought about that sort of thing. But where I’ve grown up is very…well, not anti-religion, as such. Just very atheist. I hate to generalise an entire country, but Britain is pretty athiest on the whole. There’s a forum I go on, called The Student Room, where students help eachother out with work and things, and there are other sections where you can talk about what you like, and I’d have to say, I’d suspect that quite a few people on these boards wouldn’t be very keen on some of the threads on there.

And you’re right- the chances are mind-blowingly small! So minute, so tiny, that a normal human brain couldn’t even begin to comprehend it. But that’s still allowing for there to be a chance, right? Even if it is very, very small? Also, quite recently I believe, there have been some discoveries of planets with Earth-like conditions, potential Earths, as such. Looks like we might not be the only ones out there! :laughing:

I see your point, for example, reptiles changing into mammals, as is generally believed in the theory of evolution. The only thing I can say towards that are certain bone remnents left behind, that sort of thing…Microbes turning into large fungus, an experiment we did at school, which was pretty cool. But I guess a complete lack of evolution would beg the question, ‘why are so many animals so similar?’ Most mammals have four limbs. If God created everything, why couldn’t he have gone wild and gave elephants six legs, and that sort of thing? Just a thought. :laughing:

I have no doubt that the Bible is true to a certain extent, such as being a recording of battles and that sort of thing. But recording battles and the creation of the universe as we know it are two totally different kettles of fish. I’m sure there are other documents that have recorded features such as archeology- it’s pretty cool that something like that has survived so long, but just because some rather trivial facts may be correct doesn’t mean the whole thing is true.

I just can’t get my head around the idea of the Earth being created in seven days. Yet at the same time, a big bang creating the universe sounds pretty silly, too. I guess I’m not on any side, then. :laughing:

There are also some things in the Bible which I am against…For example, I just hate how reptiles are given a bad rap, so to speak. A friend of mine was reading the Bible, out of interest (she’s one of those types of people who loves to know everything) and she was talking to me about how she came across one section promoting stoning homosexual people. We both agreed that it was a tad extreme. But, on the other hand, the Bible also promotes a lot of good. It sort of contradicts itself, in a way- after all, it is a text most likely written by a lot of different people.

I don’t really know what I’ve proven with this post. Just that I’m interested in this sort of thing. :laughing:

I do hope that your viewpoint of me does not change because of this, though. I don’t really care what religion you are on here, as long as you’re a Pixar fan. Just hope I haven’t made any enemies by posting my viewpoints (in a hopefully open-minded and methodical…ish approach).

#12

I haven’t even read every word of this. Just your posts, mainly, LG, since they’re the most interesting. :laughing:

Interesting theory. I once thought about this, but i proved myself wrong with:

  1. Miracles happen.
  2. Demons have been (or at least seem to have been) cast out from people in the name of Jesus.
  3. People have been brought back to life from being dead, thanks to very advanced medical technology, and their stories are amazing.

[quote=“lizardgirl”}And you’re right- the chances are mind-blowingly small! So minute, so tiny, that a normal human brain couldn’t even begin to comprehend it. But that’s still allowing for there to be a chance, right? Even if it is very, very small? Also, quite recently I believe, there have been some discoveries of planets with Earth-like conditions, potential Earths, as such. Looks like we might not be the only ones out there! :laughing: [/quote]
First of all, 0.0000000000000… = 0.
Secondly, the above odds are the same odds that Earth was placed at
just the right distance from the Sun,
just the right temperature for the Sun,
just the right orbit for planting food,
just enough time for harvesting food,
just the right chemicals to sustain life for humans,
and animals,
and plants…shall i go on?

I hate people asking “What if”'s in the past, but i’ll make an exception. :laughing:

He went totally wild! Could any human have thought of a way to make an animal better than God’s design?

Some of the infinite remarkable things about the human body:

1. The nervous system
and how much information the brain can hold and not crash,
and how many nerves are on the skin,
and how pain is detected so it can be treated ASAP,
and how neurons keep transferring information to another, to another, to another, instantly,
and the reflexes it gives to the human body,
and how those reflexes come before the brain senses pain,
and how computing runs faster with adrenaline (however you spell that dumb word),
etc.!!!

2. The digestive system
and how the stomach can dissolve pretty much anything you can eat (don’t try this at home),
and how the stomach doesn’t dissolve itself,
and how the stomach has a constant supply of gastric juices,
and how all the food you eat is conveniently disposed,
and how it…uh…returns anything that it doesn’t want,
and how the tongue can move food nealy anywhere in the mouth it wants,
and how all the nutrients from your food are used by the body,
and how the appendix does whatever it does,
etc.!!!1

3. The circulatory system
and how it gets your blood moving all over your body,
and how tis gets the blood to the places it needs to go,
and how white blood cells get rid of almost any bacteria,
that’s right, ANY bacteria,
and how blood can go to the places it needs to go if something bad happens,
and clots!!! :astonished: ,
and how the heart closes one valve, while letting the other be used, then closes that one, using the other, and how this works for both left and right ventricles and atriums, yes, BOTH heart chambers,
and how thin some veins and arteries are,
and how they don’t break,
and how your lips get more blood than other parts of your body so you can sense more things with your lips and so you don’t look weird,
etc.!!!111111111

4. The respiratory system
and how it … boy, i need to breathe now. breathes in

…

breathes out

I’m gonna stop now. I’m getting tired and hot and sweaty (oh, sweat glands!), oh, never mind. (eew, sweat glands!)

If the parts that can be proven have been, which they have, then it’s not crazy to think that the rest of it is true, especially if people’s lives have been changed by that awesome Book. (including criminals, rapers, murderers, etc.)

You are a very wise girl. This actually improves my image of you. :wink:

#13

Well, thank you, A113. I love this sort of thing- is it obvious that I started up the Debate Club at my high school? Then again, maybe it isn’t, since I haven’t really made a great argument for my side either. :laughing:

Okay, so in reference to my little brain fart of a theory-

  1. Are they miracles? Or are they just coincidences, or things of that sort of nature? I guess you sort of have to define a miracle. I’d say a miracle is something which has no chance of happening. Absolutely none. For example, there is no chance of me taking a spaceship into the centre of the sun and surviving. But, if we’re really going to be nitpicky, there is a chance of that, isn’t there? Perhaps it’s best if you give me an example.

  2. I don’t really know much about that sort of thing. As far as I was aware, demons don’t exist and so there is therefore no way of them being cast out in the name of Jesus, if you see what I mean. I would probably personally explain ‘demonic behaviour’ as some sort of psychological issue (I do love my psychology! :laughing:). Also, if someone believes that they have a demon within them, and then that this demon has been released, they may act in a way to accomodate this, not because it has happened, but because they truly, truly believe it has happened.

  3. Oh, you mean those people who sort of die for a short amount of time, but are brought back to life? Like someone whose heart stops for a while, but manages to be resusitated? I’d probably have to put their stories down to complex psychological goings-on within the brain as the person dies, as well as fabrication due to wanting to impress their peers and that sort of thing. But I couldn’t really ever say for certain without dying myself- though I don’t think it’s worth it for the sake of this debate! :laughing:

Yeah, no I was taking into account how exactly right the Earth is to sustain life. It’s pretty incredible, isn’t it? I can see why the chances might be deemed so small that you’d have to question whether it could happen naturally. But in terms of the mathematical side of things, 0.0000…1 is still a chance. It doesn’t quite equal zero; very close, but not quite. Anyway, we’ve established that water is needed to sustain life, and they did find water on Mars, didn’t they? A while back? I’m not sure as to whether there really is life on Mars, but if you think about the size of the universe as a whole…Well, I’d rather not think about it- it’s much too big! But if you take into account the fact that the universe is very, very, VERY large and contains an almost infinite number of planets, the chance that one of them is able to sustain life seems all the more plausible.

Definitely- we are remarkable beings, as are all the creatures around us. Most certainly, there’s no denying that; the world we live in is a beautiful, sometimes surprising and absolutely fascinating place, and we’re forever learning more about our environment.

But, I still say that there are some real similarities between a lot of God’s creatures, if you get my drift. For example, blood clots. What an incredible way the body protects oneself. But we’re not the only creatures that get blood clots- pretty much all other animals with blood do too. Our basic anatomy is very similar to that of other animals, with chimpanzees most commonly referred to. I guess that could just be a coincidence, but it just doesn’t bode well with me.

The bits that I’m able to say, ‘yes, I can quite happily believe that this is true’ are usually the bits which seem to record history in a pretty plausible way. The battles are one example- there have been other battles in the past, and it’s easy enough to believe that they had battles in those days too. But I do think it’s more than one step to believe the more radical ideas the Bible presents, such as God creating everything just like that. I have to say it- it seems like such a human ideal, for God to create us in His image, for other animals to be ‘below’ us, as such, and that sort of thing. Of course we’re going to say that. We’re humans. It’s like someone supporting one football team saying another is better. Heh heh.

I think I might read the Bible, when I have some spare time, just to broaden my horizons. After all, it’s a text that clearly has value in our current world.

And thank you, A113, for being understanding of my viewpoints. I’m so pleased that we’re all mature enough to conduct a potentially volatile conversation in such a way. :smiley:

#14

That explains a lot of it. And it’s not too bad. Although you’re not really against Creation, you’re still questioning it, which is better for learning than being against something. :wink:

One of my favorite examples is one from 2005, in Campinas, Brazil. A girl’s friends were drunk, and they invited her to take a drive. The girl’s mother hears of this and tells her daughter, “My daughter, go with God, and may He protect you.” The girl replied, “Only if He travels in the trunk, because there’s no room for Him inside.” She went with her drunk friends.

The police called the girl’s mother, saying that everyone had died in a car crash, and the car was nearly destroyed, except for the trunk. The police opened the trunk to find a crate of eggs, none of which were cracked.

Awe. Some.

Well, my point was that these people who have been healed have had their lives changed. That is amazing. I convinced myself that this had to have been an act of God.

Here’s a good story (i read this somewhere, but i forget where): A lady was dead on arrival. The doctors brought her back to life (i don’t know the right term for this, somebody help me), and she woke up shocked. She claimed that when she was coming back down to earth, she went through the attic (some top hunk) of the hospital, and said she saw a hammer up there. The doctors left, and one went to see, and a hammer was there.

Well, as for the odds, God wins this one. :sunglasses: And yes, His creation is beautiful.

Oh, i could go on and on about every single other animal too, but not only would that take forever (another example of the world’s complexity), there’s also trillions, if not quadrillions, of species out there.

Although some animals look similar, it is clear they are not, except for microevolution, which is breeding. A good example of this is different dog breeds, which are clearly different (for example, the Pekingese and the Golden Retriever), but those differences were the result of bredding, aka “microevolution”. But the other theories of evolution have been disproven many times.

Since life cannot survive without oxygen, then it can’t evolve without it. But oxygen would destroy any cells forming from the lava soup Earth, so life can’t evolve with oxygen, either.

If life can’t evolve with oxygen, and
life can’t evolve without oxygen, then what happened? The question is: What didn’t happen?

chorus of Beethoven’s 5th

Also, polonium halos (more info at halos.com) have been observed here on Earth. They would have been burned by the lava soup Earth.

And the biggest slap in the face for evolutionists is the number of intermediae link fossils, in other words, the number of fossils of the animals that were still in the process of evolving. The total number of these fossils: 0. :stuck_out_tongue:

So we both agree that life did not evolve, correct? It looks like you’re smart enough to see that.

#15

Oh, boy. sigh

If I wasn’t so chronically behind in my Internet/computer-related activities, I’d love to join in with you guys on this discussion. Maybe in the future, if this thread doesn’t become locked by then.

#16

Thank You LIzardGirl for being so open to our “harsh” and rather “long” explanations cuz people like you are gems to us. I’ve had bad expieriences where i just mention about one topic of evolution and the guy pulls me under with useless facts and statements.

You have calmly and carefully responded and we respect you for your openness becuase that is what the world doesn’t have today.

Miracles are works of wonder that we see all around us. People who out of their normal cource saving people from buildings. Miracles are not just necessarily 0% chances. They can be things that puzzle the brain or bring wonder into peoples minds.

As to me…i profess faith not because my parents do but becuase i see that no other explanation is logical like it. I’m just like you, open minded to other ideas that will bring as much proof as the top rank and in my 16 years i have found nothing that is so supported in this world like Christianity. Everything just fits once you know it. Nothing i have ever seen gives such fundamental proofs as it. My parents don’t force me to pray or read and i do very little at the moment becuase i’m still growing. But religion is my job and not my parents. I have accepted Christ as a way to live this life because i believe he is the reason i am here.

Rahcel Cakes Go right ahead…as long as we keep calm with our discussions we can keep it going. Just don’t blow your top and we won’t. :smiley:

#17

Great post, Al. :smiley: By the way, thanks for starting this thread.

#18

Hey no problem…i didn’t want it going into that Sarah Palin Thread.

Does this get me a raise :wink:

#19

Wow, long posts here. I just made a long post here, but by accident, I deleted it! I’ve got to start over now. :unamused: Oh, well. I think I can remember…
I’m so glad this topic came up! I’ve always wanted to speak my mind about it.

Think about it this way (please read all of this and put it to mind, otherwise I’d feel that this post would be useless. Thank you):

People will look at a jet plane, for example, or any type of invention. It does amazing things, it can solve some sort of problem in the world, it can go past a certain limit of what people thought before, and it has the perfect fuctions that make it work well. If it’s missing one sort of thing that’s important to it working, it will malfunction. People will look at that invention, how it works so well and has every important piece it needs, and admire that someone made it. People will not declare that it made itself accidentally over time. If it did, it wouldn’t work that properly if it just came to be an no one did anything, would it? People do not say that it changed itself. Even if it did change (upgrade, I should say) it wouldn’t upgrade itself. Someone would have to upgrade it.

Now why can’t people say the same about the world that we live in, and around us? Why do some people not admire that it came from a Creator, and admire how He made everything work perfectly the way it’s supposed to be? Why do some people say it all somehow came to be by itself, and all it took was a matter of time? If that did happen, how would you explain how it functions perfectly so that we can live? If one thing went wrong, everything would fall apart. Even if we did change over time and animals adapted to the environment, someone would have to let that happen. Small changes to let a creature find a way to adapt to its environment could not just come out of nowhere. You could say it was a miracle, but God created that miracle.
You could say that at the beginning to time, the beginning of our universe, there was a Big Bang, but God made it happen (maybe when he said “Let there be light!” there was an explosion to make the light).

The theory of evolution is basically not given God proper credit for everything he has done and made for this world because he loves it. Think about how bad that must feel. Say, if you made a very important invention that will be famous and change the world for good, wouldn’t you be very proud? It becomes well-known, all right, but people are declaring that it made itself, upgraded itself, and let itself have everything. Isn’t that a shocking thing to say? But people are saying that about the world, the universe.

Is Creation going against everything scientists found out? Absolutely not! I’ve read interesting articles about Creation vs. Evolution, but some are titled something like: Science vs. Religion. They’re saying it as if Christians are against science. I’d like to make this clear. WE ARE NOT AGAINST SCIENCE! God made science as physical rules for the Earth and the rest of the universe so it stays in order. No, we know for sure science exists. But we also know for sure that the definition of science is proven facts of the world through study and observation (definition wording may vary). But anyway, was evolution observed? Were there witnesses who were there to say it was true, and took notes, and had their decendents study it? No. The only witness was God, and suppose if evolution did happen, still God would have been in control of it. So WE ARE NOT AGAINST SCIENCE; WE ARE JUST AGAINST THE FALSE IDEA BEING PASSED OF AS SCIENCE!

Here’s another piece of evidence. DNA. We are all each different, and DNA is very complicated and full of information in us that makes us all unique. If we were accidents, wouldn’t there have been a chance that we would be alike because we came from the same singular cell at the beginning? The theory of evolution seems to be saying that we are all accidents and shouldn’t feel special for anything except for the “fact” that we evolved this far. In truth, God made each of us special, one way or another. Even twins have different DNA. Even animals, too, though it’s harder for us to see it. Zebras each have different stripes, none alike. Some wildcats have spots or stripes, and no two have the exact same pattern. Snowflakes, too, are each different in design, and no two are coincidencally the same. Coincidence is the key word here. Coicidence connects with the word accident. Coincidences are not intended. We don’t see any of that in the design of animals, people, and the rest of the world.

Oh, and about the similarites between some of God’s creatures, that’s actually proof that defies evolution! Example: think about Pixar. Yes, that’s right, Pixar Animations Studios. In each of their feature films, they put some references here and there from another film they made. You see these references, it’s evidence that they all came from the same studio. How else would you explain that they could put in-jokes from one movie in another? They made them, so they know more about their own creations. They are allowed to put references in them, because they own them. You wouldn’t say that this movie turned into this movie and kept that in-joke, and such and such.
Similarites are not at all proof that one creature came from another, or one being became another. Example: some people say just because people and apes share a certain similarity, they are related to each other. That’s not the case! Would you say just because Jump5 and the Muses from Disney’s Hercules have five people, they are the same? No! Would you say just because a skirt and pants are both worn on the bottom half means thay one became another? No! You could say that they came from the same designer, and that’s the point I’m trying to make.

Phew, that was a lot to say.
Plenty more where that came from!
I even own three DVDs of real sceintific and observed and discoverd facts about animals, and every single one of those facts (which are proven to be true) defy evolution. These animals would not have been able to do as the facts say if evolution were true.

That’s all I’ll say here, but I might say more. Thank you for reading my long post here. It was a lot to say, and I’m appreciative that it wasn’t useless.

#20

you own that collection!!!
I do too!!!