Al-Bob, what about the thousands or even millions of people throughout history that lived in remote villages without ever hearing “the word of God”? Why would God create them to live until adulthood without hearing of Christianity and them send them to Hell for not accepting Jesus? (Because they couldn’t because they had never heard of him.) I’m not talking about The Rapture, I’m talking about people in the past who have never heard of Jesus, but were sent to Hell anyway.
I’m not speaking my mind here, but … well, from what I learned in philosophy - Christians reject nature and deny what is natural. It may not be good to ‘sin’ but such is human nature. It’s natural for humans to do right and do wrong. As for nature itself - they reject mother nature in our world because they long for another world, in this case heaven, and do not simply embrace and enjoy the world they’re already in, to love it despite the bad that’s in it.
I’m generalizing there, and just displaying what I’ve learned in philosophy. It’s a sort of dumbed-down version of what the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had to say on the subject of Christianity. I don’t believe all he says, but he does raise good topics.
My two cents to add to that is this : no one knows exactly for sure where we end up when we die. And because of this, I believe that everyone should enjoy life while it lasts, because it’s the inevitable fate that each and every one of us will die someday and … well, what if what happens afterwards is worse than life? What if there is no afterwards? I’d like to hope there is, but the scary truth is : no one knows for sure. And I don’t think that anyone will ever know, because not everything in this world can be explained logically.
I don’t know…that has to be one of the many questions that are unable to be answered by me or any historian. My best guess is that after the fall of bable all who were scattered knew about God and the belief of sin (since they all go back to Adam) This would instill a sense of “knowledge”…but since they since turned to barbarism they must have put aside their ideas of God for sinful “humanism”.
Do you mean you haven’t sinned or done something that is against your nerves??
For the non-christian there are some sins that are clear such as Murder. But for the Christian we know of a set of “sins” that we are supposed to avoid. Lying, slander, hypocracy…etc. If you go by my rule; bad language, slander, crudity, lying, hurting someone physically or spiritually, raising your temper…These things are all sins…if it makes you feel better we could rename them as “unwanteds”.
I just want to let everyone know, I have no real problem with Christianity, only how crazy its followers tend to be. Personally, I don’t agree with Christianity, but I’d never want to take it away from its followers, because if it gives them the will to live and prevents them from causing serious harm to others, then that’s good enough for me.
I just don’t like the religious people, who find out that I’m not Christian and try to save me. Whatever I believe in has kept me from suicide and in turn has granted me the will to live. Just as Christianity does the same for Christians. So … why would I need to be saved? I already am.
Al-Bob - Well, at least you aren’t too proud to admit that you don’t really have an answer to my question… but what I was really getting at was: what if a person was born and they lived on their own and didn’t talk to anyone or have any concept of any ideas outside where they live or other people, and they grew up and died after becoming an adult, would they go to Hell? That person had never heard of Jesus or Christianity, so why would God send them to Hell when they never had the choice of choosing to be saved? It’s just that kind of logic I can’t get my head around.
Also, another paradox I’ve been thinking about: if God knows everything, the past, present and future, why does it say in the Bible that Adam and Eve went behind God’s back to eat the forbidden fruit? Wouldn’t have God known what they were doing at that time if he is capable of being omnipresent (everywhere at the same time)? Furthermore, wouldn’t God have known that they were going to go against him before they even did it? Why the need to even put them through the test then if God knew what the outcome would be?
FONY - Yeah, no matter what anyone’s beliefs are, I wish people would be more accepting of your own personal beliefs. Especially when it’s something like spirituality. Trying to convert people only ends up driving them in the other direction, anyway.
About that “innocent people going to hell” thing, I’ve wondered that, too. Like, for example, the Native Americans in the European missionaries. The Europeons meant to convert them to Christianity, but were also hypocrites in a way because they beat and whipped the Natives. No wonder the Native Americans didn’t like to follow them. So what’s to happen to them? I personally don’t believe God would have sent them to hell for that. I mean, He understands what everyone’s going through, and I’m positive He knows that the Native Americans couldn’t believe in Him if His followers have done the wrong thing to them. So, I think they are shown His great grace
At my chuch’s Winter Retreat, I’ve heard an interesting message from my pastor. It was on how Chrstians could/should open their mind to scientific discoveries- on how evolution and creation could have harmony.
Some examples on different theories are:
-The traditional six-day creation theory
(literally six days)
-The Thousand Years to One Day theory
(because God is outside of time, six days to Him might have meant a thousand or million years for us)
-The Young Earth Made With Certain Age theory
(God created the Earth only 6,000 or so years ago, but made it seem older. Example: Adam- one day old and already 46 yrs old. Tree- some weeks old, but already implanted with a number of rings inside its trunk)
And there are some more, but I can’t recall them right now.
well my opinion is that, well this isn’t an opinion right now, but that person chose to not talk to anyone or go outside of his little bubble. im not saying it’s his fault if anything bad were to happen to him. because say that maybe he didn’t WANT to talk to anyone or step out of his little bubble, however it would be different if there was some force of any kind whether it was another person or whatever that didn’t LET him interact with the world…
but it would kind of be like asking a question like: what if god had never made the tree. and people always say that why did he put the stupid tree there in the first place, and i don’t know if any one mentioned it, but to give adam and eve and “opportunity” to sin, or in other words, he had no other way of seeing if they truly loved him or not.
and the person never had that similar “opportunity” for whatever reason, with of course the person playing the role of adam and eve, not of god, but you kinda understand what exactly that opportunity is.
my opinion is that we as humans are not able to fully understand God and his power, which is one of the many reasons that he is so awesome
but just thinking off the top of my head, if we followed that same concept and applied it to people and religion now, then we don’t really have free will, or we have free will but that’s what god had planned because knows it’s going to happen, and since god is god, and nothing else can “decide” the future other than the one who created time itself (i believe), therefore he must have already planned out what were to happen.
back to the not understanding thing, it’s one of those chicken and egg things where it goes around and around in circles chasing it’s own tail because you could say well then god doesn’t know, but the bible says he does, ok then well that part of the bible isn’t true, but if that part weren’t true, well think about the size of the bible and how much is contained in it, how much information, and how many other things in it wouldn’t be true.
so the only thing i can really say for now is that god couldn’t have controlled them because then there would be no reason to make the tree. and the reason he made the tree is probably to see if they loved him or not, because he didn’t want to force them to love him because then it wouldn’t be love. and there wouldn’t be any decisions today (i believe)
To finish up on that “nomad who hasn’t heard” topic.
All roots go back to Adam thus every family line (including yours) has heard of “Christianity” or “God” at least once. I now believe that the role of the parent was to continue that idea through the generations. The bible even says that parents will be judged on how well they train their children. This could possibly referr to continuing the trend of God through the children. But then somewhere after Cain the parents went back on God, stopped telling their children of the garden of Eden and God, and the children never told their children.
It’s nice to believe, but there isn’t any proof. That being said, anyone can have roots anywhere if they choose to believe it - I can say that I’m related to Lewis Carroll, and that may be true, but when I go and try to make a fact out of such a belief, that’s where I’d be wrong.
In short, all beliefs are true until you try to turn it into a solid fact. It’s confusing, but yeah. Sorta like ‘anything is possible but not everything can be proven.’
Don’t get me wrong - faith is good, but when someone tries to tell someone that everyone comes from the same thing, or that everyone is the son or daughter of a God … I don’t think that’s nice to say, especially since it offends and more importantly : no one knows for certain.
For example, if I were a Satan worshipper and I told you that all of you were the sons and daughters of Satan, and you just don’t know it yet, wouldn’t you be offended?
(I’m not a Satan worshipper, btw; that’s a branch of Christianity )
Besides, if all our roots really went back to Adam, wouldn’t that make us all products of incest?
yes. And why is sex so bad? Why is it so unclean? Surely if it’s that bad, why would god let us have the organs, and why doesn’t have just create people from dirt?
Well, science would disagree with you there. But I wasn’t talking about the past, and whatever happened in Biblical times, or the people that supposedly existed shortly after God created the Earth. Let’s say, if you go back to the example that I brought up, that theoretically, a man in the future was born, but then left to fend for himself with only animals to keep him company and no-one to tell him about Christianity, after he has become an adult (because I heard from a Christian that children don’t go to Hell) and dies, would he still go to Hell, even if he had never had the chance of hearing about Christianity?
And, like FONY brought up, who did Adam and Eve’s (immediate) sons and daughters reproduce with?
Yeah. And why make it so pleasurable?
I’m having a bit of trouble following everything else you wrote… But in relation to that quote above, yes, God would have. If God can know everything then he can see into the future, and he would have known what Adam and Eve were going to do without having to put them through a test. I’m just wondering why God would put them through a test he would know they were going to fail.
Yeah sorry, I was really tired and I couldn’t think straight, and I’m reading it now so I could tell you the point I was trying to get across but I don’t understand it either… XD
Well, if you believe in Adam and Eve, I guess we are the result of incest. I guess the deformities would have been ironed out eventually and wouldn’t matter. But more importantly, does it say in the Bible that incest is wrong? If it does, why would God create a situation where the only way Adam and Eve could “go forth and multiply” would be for incest to happen?
Sorta like ‘anything is possible but not everything can be proven.’
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