How so?
^I feel that in the second film they made Mater act a lot more childish than in the first, especially with his relationship with Lightning. Like the scene where everyone thought Mater was leaking oil. It was almost like Lightning was his parent and Mater was some little kid. And the part where Lightning says “Now Mater, remember… best behavior.” I mean, people in real life don’t say that kind of stuff to their friends, even if their friends act a little immature. Now, Mater did kinda act like that in the first film, but I always felt that Mater was responsible for himself. And I think his humor was a little more mature in the first film as well.
I can see your point, but wouldn’t Lightning acting like that be more about his controlling nature than an actual change in Mater’s behavior?
Then they also changed Lighting’s behaver.
Yeah, [i:1dl71vsu]Cars 3[/i:1dl71vsu]- Mater gets a very, very…[i:1dl71vsu]very[/i:1dl71vsu] small part. Just kidding, that’s just my annoyance from the second movie talking.
[quote="lazerenvy237":1dl71vsu]Maybe if someone like SALLY was the main character[/quote:1dl71vsu]
Now you’re speaking my language! Well, nah. If anyone is going to be the main character in the [i:1dl71vsu]Cars[/i:1dl71vsu] movies, it needs to always be Lighting- end of story. They just need to give Sally more than three lines next time.
(More annoyance talking)
[quote="Snipe":1dl71vsu]^I feel that in the second film they made Mater act a lot more childish than in the first, especially with his relationship with Lightning. Like the scene where everyone thought Mater was leaking oil. It was almost like Lightning was his parent and Mater was some little kid. And the part where Lightning says "Now Mater, remember… best behavior." I mean, people in real life don’t say that kind of stuff to their friends, even if their friends act a little immature. Now, Mater did kinda act like that in the first film, but I always felt that Mater was responsible for himself. And I think his humor was a little more mature in the first film as well.[/quote:1dl71vsu]
^^^^^^^^^^ Agree with all that! And because of Mater’s personality being like that, it made him being the main character… shakes head just a very bad choice. Now, I’m not saying Mater is a bad character because he’s not but he’s very…there.
Very flat, one-sided, you know? If you see one side of Mater, you see it all. I know they tried to make this big change in him somehow. They can try and convince me all they want but I still see a not-so-smart hillbilly tow truck. It wasn’t like Lightning’s change which we obviously saw happening through the movie and was 100% convincing. Because of this obsession with Mater being the main character, all the other great characters got basically pushed off the grid- even poor Lightning (who is much more interesting and better suited as the main protagonist)!
Basically, to sum up my feelings…
[i:1dl71vsu]Cars[/i:1dl71vsu]- Mater was funny, entertaining, and ‘aww’-able at many parts.
[i:1dl71vsu]Cars 2[/i:1dl71vsu]- PLEASE GET OFF THE SCREEN.
You know, I’m still stuck on the fact that Lightning apologized and Mater didn’t, if that doesn’t say everything.
What about a backstory of Doc?
[quote="Netbug009":3ihr2zos]wouldn’t Lightning acting like that be more about his controlling nature than an actual change in Mater’s behavior?[/quote:3ihr2zos]
Well, yes, perhaps. I think they also changed how Lightning behaved towards Mater. And perhaps that is how Mater always was, and the fact that he was such a central part of the second film just really brought it out. In that case, I agree with what [b:3ihr2zos]SallyMcQueen[/b:3ihr2zos] said… it’s not that I don’t like his personality, just that he was a poor choice as a main character.
[quote="SallyMcQueen":3ihr2zos]Very flat, one-sided, you know? If you see one side of Mater, you see it all.[/quote:3ihr2zos]
Shallow, perhaps? Yeah, I can agree with you there. He has no depth, no layers. Pretty much in the movie his only "change" was a justification for how he acts… which, is okay, but there’s no development there. And I agree with what you said about Lightning… although he did treat Mater kinda badly, Mater sorta deserved it! At least Mater could have said sorry for the trouble he caused them.
[quote="SallyMcQueen":3ihr2zos][i:3ihr2zos]Cars 2[/i:3ihr2zos]- PLEASE GET OFF THE SCREEN. [/quote:3ihr2zos]
Okay, I don’t know why, but I found that hilariously funny. The way you wrote it, I think.
You know, something I was thinking… [i:3ihr2zos]Cars 2[/i:3ihr2zos] is still really good, even if it’s a bit of a fluke compared to Pixar’s other films. There are a good portion of other movies out there that you couldn’t even begin to start taking apart the way we’ve been doing here to [i:3ihr2zos]Cars 2[/i:3ihr2zos]… they just lack any kind of structure or plausibility for anything to really make sense. We can at least thank Pixar for that much.
[quote="Pixarfan91":3ihr2zos]What about a backstory of Doc?[/quote:3ihr2zos]
Now that… [i:3ihr2zos]that[/i:3ihr2zos] would be totally absolutely awesome! If they put enough effort behind it and really came up with something good, I would [i:3ihr2zos]so[/i:3ihr2zos] go and see that. It would be the epitome of epicness. And Doc’s history is mysterious enough for them to really come up with some fantastic ideas.
I think if they were to make a Cars 3, it should be about that secret mission Finn mentioned at the end of the second movie. Oh, I hope it isn’t a rushed effort like the second film was.
It can be about got he got into racing till be decided to retire.
[quote="Snipe":3i8rz5cm] And I agree with what you said about Lightning… although he did treat Mater kinda badly, Mater sorta deserved it! At least Mater could have said sorry for the trouble he caused them. [/quote:3i8rz5cm]
Right?! After Lightning was all like, "I’m sorry Mater for maybe too harsh on you", blah blah blah. I totally expected Mater to be like "Oh, well, I’m sorry for maybe being [i:3i8rz5cm]too[/i:3i8rz5cm] embarrassing and getting into all this." blah blah blah. But no, that didn’t happen. Mater just went on to "save the world"!
[quote="Snipe":3i8rz5cm]There are a good portion of other movies out there that you couldn’t even begin to start taking apart the way we’ve been doing here to [i:3i8rz5cm]Cars 2[/i:3i8rz5cm]… they just lack any kind of structure or plausibility for anything to really make sense. We can at least thank Pixar for that much. [/quote:3i8rz5cm]
Exactly! People just need to stop with this whole ‘critics and ratings’ thing and just discuss the movie for what [i:3i8rz5cm]they[/i:3i8rz5cm], as a fan, think of it and not what a ‘professional’ says. I’m sorry for that rant.
[quote="Pixarfan91":3i8rz5cm]What about a backstory of Doc?[/quote:3i8rz5cm]
^^^ I would go see that, for sure. But if that happened, there would be like no characters from the other movies- no Lightning, no Sally, no Mater.
[quote="SallyMcQueen":1j3em0dr]But if that happened, there would be like no characters from the other movies- no Lightning, no Sally, no Mater.[/quote:1j3em0dr]
Gah, there’s the drawback to that. Maybe it wouldn’t be so awesome after all.
…Guys?
Mater did apologize. He left a long note of an apology when he first left the group.
A central part of Mater’s character is that he is an innocent, and not very socially aware in many situations, but has a strong emotional intelligence. Mater didn’t totally know what he’d done wrong, but he was aware he’d done something wrong and apologized very early on.
As Mater goes through his adventure, he becomes a more self aware character, and by the end of the movie he tells Lightning that he gets what he did wrong… but Lightning also had to come back and say that it was unfair of him to expect Mater to change his entire personality.
That was Lightning’s problem. This wasn’t Lightning clearly asking Mater to tone it down, but rather this was Lightning very vaguely asking his friend to be different.
I don’t say this to completely vindicate Mater of everything he did, but if we’re going to talk about being true to Mater’s character, in my opinion we also need to respect that part of his character being sheltered and simple means he will never fully understand what it means to be sophisticated and culturally savvy. He needs things explained to him.
For example, at the Tokyo party, Lightning tries to tell Mater that he needs to change his attitude… but the conversation reveals quite a bit about Mater’s character AND Lightning’s intentions.
“Look, things are different over here. Which means you need to… you know… act different too.”
“Different than what?”
“Well, just… help me out here, buddy.”
This is where the fault changes to Lightning. Mater asks Lighting what he needs to do, and instead of just telling him, Lightning skirts past the question and continues to be very vague. This hints that Lightning doesn’t really want Mater to still be Mater but calmer… rather he wants Mater to act like a completely different person and therefore isn’t sure how to reply.
This is further evidence later when Mater is working with Holley at the casino. Holley is specific with Mater. She tells him to stop talking to her… and while it takes Mater a moment to get it, once he does he stops talking to her. There are plenty of other instances of this during Mater’s spy adventures as well.
Lightning isn’t the one at fault because he asked Mater to calm down and be a bit more culturally sensitive. He’s at fault because he failed to communicate in a simple, direct manner.
As for others needing to change, not Mater, like Lightning said, this is true. Why? Because nobody had the guts or the respect to simply ask Mater to chill a little. Instead, they grumbled at him, judged him, and laughed at him.
[quote="Netbug009":14re3zwi]Mater did apologize. He left a long note of an apology when he first left the group.[/quote:14re3zwi]
And I can’t argue with any of the other stuff you stated there. Gah, [b:14re3zwi]Netbug[/b:14re3zwi], why do you have to come up with such reasonable explanations?
[quote="Snipe":j8oarsdf][quote="Netbug009":j8oarsdf]Mater did apologize. He left a long note of an apology when he first left the group.[/quote:j8oarsdf]
And I can’t argue with any of the other stuff you stated there. Gah, [b:j8oarsdf]Netbug[/b:j8oarsdf], why do you have to come up with such reasonable explanations?
[/quote:j8oarsdf]
I dunno. Why can’t I ever apply my the same level of attention to things important to life as I do to whatever film I’m currently obsessing over? XD
Ugh, I think I have a hint of idiot savant, and it has no practical application whatsoever. XD
I stand corrected. 
I agree that that was Lightning’s intentions. I also think it was Ligthning’s intention to not hurt Mater’s feelings. (Although, he eventually did.) It’s obvious Mater is really sensitive and take things the wrong way more than once. If Lightning had just told Mater about his true intentions and to act completely different, it would cause conflict which is what I think Lightning is ultimately trying to avoid while swerving around the question and just praying that Mater can take the hint which he obviously can’t.
This. I don’t think we should be so hard on Lightning for trying to be a caring car. If one of my friends were doing something that bothered me, that would be my first approach; to try and make hints and say things more lightly rather than just come out and be suddenly demanding about it.
What I don’t get is this…
I thought we were just saying that Mater shouldn’t have to change who is? Then why should we try and change the personalities of others just to suit him?
Exactly. I mean, it didn’t turn out as planned and it was wrong of Lightning for wanting Mater to change who he is but Lightning tried and he had good first intentions.
My only comment on this is Amen.
A friend also mentioned to me this morning about how Lightning may have been trying to spare Mater’s feelings, but while that seems like a good point, it leaves me confused on one thing; Lightning had been able to explain exactly what was going onto Mater back in Radiator Springs. It took a little time, but he eventually was able to say nicely to Mater “Look, I mean I just want to have dinner with Sally, and we can hang out tommorow.” Why wasn’t he able to do that later?
There’s the difference between asking Mater to change entirely and asking Mater to keep a habit in check to be culturally sensitive/polite.
However, instead of anybody asking Mater politely to tone it down, or informing him of things he didn’t understand, several characters laughed at him behind his back.
This is waxing a bit more philosophical than I intended, but IMO, if you’re going to form a bad opinion of somebody and express it, I think you owe it to the person to give them a chance to do the right thing. That’s why I have trouble blaming Mater, because he doesn’t know better and nobody tried to communicate clearly with him.
…I’m getting a bit lost in my own thoughts the more I babble. Does any of this make sense? I know I’m treading a fine line between trying to show Mater’s viewpoint and making excuses for when he messes up, which is not my goal. I’m just confused by just how much hate is being directed at his flaws by fans lately because his flaws don’t seem any more major than any other character to me.
I guess I’m having some trouble explaining Mater’s literal mindset, because I have autism and therefore ALSO have a literal mindset and need things explained to me, but it’s hard to explain it to people who don’t naturally perceive the world that way, which is most people. I’m not saying this to make it personal - because it’s not - but just to clarify where I think Mater may be coming from. ^^;
Well, I just don’t think it’s fair to place all the blame on one character. Neither McQueen nor Mater. In fact, I don’t even really know what we are trying to blame anyone for? And I don’t see that much hate for Mater anymore. I see quite the opposite actually; people trying to defend Mater more than necessary. He’s got a huge fan base and is obviously one of Pixar’s most lovable characters. I guess people are just looking for an excuse for why Cars 2 wasn’t as highly accepted by the critics. Who cares though? If the fans enjoyed it then what makes us wrong to hope for a Cars 3? I sure do! 
I would like a Cars 3, not going to lie. I would see it.