Slightly embarrassing discussion: kids/babies in WALL-E

Okay, this is maybe kind of embarassing for some of us and all, but I’m into biology and I’m pretty sure everyone here knows how babies are traditionally made.

(When a mummy and daddy love each other very much… I’ll stop right there).

But in WALL-E all the adults it seems can barely MOVE or seem all that bothered to move. Sure in the uh, natural process with which babies are made it doesn’t have to involve anything like standing etc but it’s physical and these adults don’t seem to be much down for that sort of thing. They can barely stretch their arms. I think they’d have problems or even lack the desire to physically exert themselves even for hugging each other (wow that’s depressing actually).

Granted in WALL-E there seems to be very few babies over all considering the size of the Axiom. But is it possible other methods of pro-creation were utilised? We don’t see the babies have any real parental figures either in fact or any adults specifically worrying about them beyond the two WALL-E meet (and they are not their actual parents it seems). It’s possible they have them but robots are all we see otherwise with kids and the captain talking about pizza plants at the very end- perhaps robots do all the raising and educating them in of mass groups and honestly that’s the only ‘raising’ aspect we see for the kids otherwise on the Axiom when things are running as if it’s a normal day. Which is kind of sad in a way. I mean it’s possible they have actual parental figures in humans but I seriously have my doubts.

But in 700 years if the humans on the Axiom had always physically been like us today were up there- birth rate would almost definitly over-ride death rate (regardless of methods of protection and all it would definitly happen because most people in addition would still have the desire to have them) and the ship would be over-run otherwise after such a long time if so, so perhaps this is an aspect which has been controlled in some form such as by robots for ‘humans own benefit’ (or at least in the robots or Auto’s view). Plus since humans might not even want to have relations with the opposite gender in that manner all that much anymore over the centuries or perhaps even find it physically too difficult (not to mention the fact pregnancy can have many complicated and invasive and even dangerous effects on a woman’s bopdy despite being a natural process and I don’t think with the way their bodies are after 700 years in space and laziness they are even less suited to go through pregnancy)- they still (eventually anyway) perhaps through more artifical means, had robots keep making babies in order to keep the species going through a new method which meant they didn’t need an actual mother’s womb. But the birth rate is still low whether through a low success rate or knowing that producing too many kids would be bad and result in space issues if not resource or time issues so not ‘making’ that many.

I know this is perhaps a weird topic but I wanted to know your thoughts. :laughing:

Perhaps the development of IVF has become so advanced at that point that there was no need for the, uhm, natural method? Just a thought :smiley:

I’ve actually had a theory on this. Maybe there were special clinics on the Axiom where they took the necessary DNA for making children and then grew them in artificial nurseries.

Let’s see, let me explain some of the things your having troubles with:


I believe that maybe somewhere in the Axiom, they’ve developed their own sperm bank where the robots ‘force’ out the sperm and then inject it into the Woman’s uterus, due in part to the lack of movement in their bodies. Why this wasn’t announced around the ship during the course of Wall-E’s adventure is mostly due to the embarrassing and also inappropriate circumstances that the kids would have to go through if they knew anything about ‘the birds and the bees’. So yes, the robots force it out of the male, and they force it into the female.

Low Birth-Rate?

If you noticed the time of office that the captains were in while the camera slowly went over them, most of their life spans were over 100 years old, which i can’t seem to make a good explanation out of, since they are of an obese but somehow immortal race. McCrea ran in office in 2775, and if assuming the holo-screen with Auto and him was on 2775, and 40 years later, he still looks exactly the same, so yes, maybe due in part to the prolonged longevity of the human race as a whole, they didn’t need so many babies to keep the population afloat since everyone else was living for so long. Also, notice how the captain was checking to see if anything was unchanged? remember when he said “passenger count” and the computer replied, “unchanged”? yes, i say so that the birth rate AND the overpopulation is controlled as well to maintain the nutrition that the Axiom can supply to it’s crewmembers, which also solves the problem of your concern about the population over-populating.


Yes, there seems to be some high concerns about the babies not having a true parent, but since they’ve become so relaxed with the virtual life of the Axiom’s interior and how they are completely under the care of the robots, they won’t and shall not notice the distinction that they’ve never had a parent who loved them or even took notice of them, other than John and Mary, who fortunately were tooken out of their virtual spell by Wall-E. Also, since Wall-E got everyone back to Earth, i think the Babies will now truly have a life with their parents, and their parents will finally take notice that they have children, now they’re open to the world.

So, like all good things about The Axiom, the whole life of the humans is under the care of the robots, every day, every moment. What wonders about me about the robots, was the realization of why they had to nurture for a now low food-chain population? Get some sentience about it, and then rebel over the humans who are in so dire need of them!

Agreed on somethingguy912’s points. Most likely artificial reproduction steps would be taken during routine medical services performed by robots, with more or less zero-growth population control…maybe as governed by Auto. In other words, new babies are scheduled in when seniors are projected to go out, all as indicated by appropriate calculations.

It seems pretty clear that the tendency toward intimate human contact has been bred out of the humans in WALL-E. Although it’s not explicitly spelled out, it doesn’t take much of a sci-fi-ish leap to infer commentary about how increased technological convenience yields increased isolation of the self from others. Right now we have the technology to be sequestered alone in a room with high-speed hi-def access to however much of the world will fit into a signal displayed via wide-screen plasma. Not so long ago in human-historical terms, we’d have to walk not only out of the room but out of the house and actually be in the presence of other people–or at least pick up a phone–if we wanted to discuss a piece of art/entertainment. In a relatively short time, we’ve collectively moved toward an AXIOMatic world.

Which is not to knock the technological advances that let us all come together and throw ideas and opinions around on a message board. As long as there’s balance and moderation within individuals’ lifestyles, everything’s cool. But that kind of cautionary note, whether it was intended by the Pixar folks or not, is a big part of what makes WALL-E great science fiction.

JustSteve, you’ve pretty much said what i had said, except in a more intelligible way! :smiley:

Your post was intelligible, somethingguy! Just needed to swirl the frosting on the cake around a little…

One other point…it could be that the AXIOM passengers didn’t appear to age greatly because of their puffiness. Some folks discover as they age that a little bit of meat on the bones tends to smooth out the wrinkles!

Also, possibly the Beautician bots and their endless supply of food led them to age for longer, and also, wouldn’t the microgravity also allow them to age longer as well? I just thought of how Gravity also changes space and time, and with an artificial one, it made the aging process run much slower due in part to the imperfect idea of full-on gravity within the ship’s hull.

Interesting about the beautician bots, especially as it relates to the topic: What’s the point of a makeover? Without getting too deep into sociopolitics, some folks might say that a makeover helps one lure a mate. Others might say it’s all about feeling good about oneself and has nothing to do with snagging a hottie.

But however all that shakes out, somewhere along the way the idea of beautifying oneself probably connects to a reproductive urge in most people. So why are there beautician bots for the AXIOM passengers if reproduction is already taken care of? One possible answer is yet another indication of the sheer sci-fi brilliance of Pixar’s film: the humans are completely out of touch with the fundamentals but still go through the motions in the most superficial way.

Gaaah! Let it not be so! I don’t WANT to ride around in a hoverchair and be wowed by a change from Red to Blue! Give me more colors and the not-so-perfectly controlled world, including a real family where everyone loves each other even if we don’t always get along picture-perfectly.

That’s how dramatically i represented it in Before the Axiom…

Well I’d kind of hope robots wouldn’t -force- men to give up sperm or force a woman to be artifically inseminated somethingguy (and become pregnant) and instead ask permission for it- it’s possible in a way (that artifical insemination takes place in any case).

A part of me wonders though whether that would even be wise to use the women as ‘vessels’ given their bodies though. They’re not healthy at all it seems and I don’t think the vast majority of the women would be able to carry a fetus to full term for it to be delivered safe and sound. If a woman is not healthy it makes things complicated. (Too fat/ too thin isn’t a good idea in general and then there’s the fact that the bodies go beyond just the fat issue due to the lack of bone and everything). I suppose nutrionally with the fact they eat food from a CUP they could technically get most of the nutrients required for a baby but there’s some things you just can’t get unless you get the REAL stuff you know? Of ocurse this is the pretty far in the future so maybe?

Human beings in general are actually rather inefficient as a species when it comes to the whole making babies process even when trying for it even in places more or less healthy. Approximately 60% (or perhaps it was 40, I’ll admit I’m working on memories here- but in any case a large proportion) of pregnancies end in miscarriage today from estimates (whether the woman knows this or not, most of the time they don’t even know because it happens so early on!), and given their bodies I’m not sure many of the fetuses would make it to full term and this rate would be much higher (granted it doesn’t mean they don’t try but simply with a low success rate and thus lots of women asked? (Otherwise it enters really unfortunate implications if they’re forced) And a C-section when ready- I cannot see any of those women being able to give birth naturally which is supposed to be utterly exhausting). No-one knows what causes miscarriages in general the vast majority of the time either. It can happen to anyone and at any time even when perfectly healthy and it’s never the mothers fault when this happens because there’s no way to stop it- but given their physical bodies I kind of suspect the success rate would be even lower for them. Of course medical biology may have made leaps and bounds I guess and have actually found ways to prevent it. (How and what is anyones guess- but there’s probably multiple causes. It doesn’t help that the woman’s body literally treats a fetus like a foreign object and all though at points from what I’ve heard- like I said because of our bodies etc we’re actually vastly inefficient at the whole baby thing even when we try for it. They’re not perfect after all.)

A part of me is wondering about completely artifical wombs myself almost instead for the fetus to develop (which is very sci-fi ish in a way). But maybe not. I’m not too sure.

The make-up thing is also a pretty interesting point. Simply going through the motions perhaps it seems. Putting on make up could almost be seen as a vestigal behaviour as it were in their case! Though of course a part of it can just be feeling good too. I mean I’m a girl and all and when I get a hair cut or whatever I feel better about myself, but it’s not s if I’m thinking really “Yay! I look great and I’m going to get a partner!” It’s more of a confidence boost in the end. Which I guess… in of itself can help some people to score in it’s own weird way? I mean how tied up is that? But we can do things without thinking of them.

It can also help me get a job in an interview too. Plus how the outside world may view you? I guess so. Though of course I cared a bit more when I was a teen then I do now. Of course there’s lots of things people do because it ‘feels’ good now despite the fact that it would have originally perhaps helped spread our genes. I mean generally uh, having relations with people of the intimate nature (hahah, work round that censors) do it because it feels good for most humans- thus a benefit for humans in the past and resulted in more of the ‘sowing of seeds’ in that case (and dolphins apparently too but that’s off topic). But yeah people don’t always want the kids thing to happen hence protection- getting the feel-good bit eithout the other part as it were in that. Technically it’s sort of counterintuitive to the whole urge to the apparent ‘spread your genes dude!’ and all but it’s what happens. (Though TBH I’m not much up for the literal spreading of genes myself, not opposed but not hung up on the idea I have to. I kind of would prefer to adopt a kid if I got the right partner if adoption wasn’t so difficult to boot.)

I mean getting done up or looking a bit better can make you feel better even if your head isn’t saying anything about mating. (A girl dressed up nice somewhere is not necessarily looking for something like that, she’s quite possibly just dressed up with her friends because she’s out to have fun and wants to feel good in the process).

Certain friendship seem to exist though I guess if the guy John was talking too before meeting WALL-E is any indication. Though it just doesn’t seem like we have parental figures.

Are there people LIKE John and Mary in the end even though? I mean I know certain things as of yet would not be possible for them (if even the desire would be there which I’m kind of doubting) but you know hand-holding and all? The cute things?

A part of me thinks no though. It seems as if people look through those little screens neraly all the time. Mary has lived on the Axiom all her life it seems and is astounded by the sights of the Axiom when WALL-E breaks hers as she’s on that cart.

It seems pretty isolated- all of them completely taken with little screens on their chairs just talking to others through that (says the girl on the internet -coughs- But anyhoodle.).

But parenthood doesn’t seem to be what people are concerned about at all.

With your lecture, i could also say that due in part to the more risky yet evolved process of childbirth, maybe that’s why the birth rate seems so slim and the day care so tiny for so many passengers on the Axiom? Also, i don’t even think they would notice having their gene juice spewed out of them since they’re so into their virtual devices, if one could not notice the person they were talking to on their holo-screen was right next to him, i think they couldn’t even notice a little ejaculation and injection in the process either. Parenthood is less substantially coordinated since everyone is in tune to their devices and the virtual world, just like you mentioned, and the PR-T’s just might be there to feel good, not to get lucky. Just like the massage bots, or HAN-S to feel good as well. Maybe, just maybe, they segued their way into the reproduction process as a more enjoyable process for men and women around, since their little cruise is technically a vacation from their ultimate home, and EVERYBODY must have a grand vacation, i mean, with the pool, the massages and the make-up. So maybe they do this with the reproduction process too, if they aren’t so oblivious to the world as i once thought, maybe giving them the illusion that reproduction=enjoyment with Commercial Propaganda and BnL Manipulation may actually help esteem the birthing process in anyway possible, without the use of ‘force’, as i mentioned earlier.

So, not only do all the crewmembers have to live in a virtual reality, every single waking moment of their lives must feel like a vacation, even the more awfully important stuff, such as relationships and breeding. What was once a vacation away from the garbage now became a vacation away from, well, everything. Even theirselves!

Like everything else in the movie, it’s done by robots. I assume that whenever a human dies, then another child is made in an artificial womb in a lab, and it’s life from ‘conception’ to birth is monitered by robots.

The way I see it, the humans in Wall-E’s future don’t necessarily have to donate sperm or eggs for IVF. Perhaps reproduction science has gotten advanced enough that they can grow babies from stem cells or DNA collected from whatever body parts (dandruff, skin shavings, saliva, etc.) without the need for intercourse or donations.

The future that Wall-E is in is certainly terrifying- humans being too lazy to even have kids. Wouldn’t be surprised if this comes true, at the rate populations in developed countries are ageing nowadays, because the birth rate can’t keep up.

.WARNING EPIC LONG POST AHEAD. Split in 2 parts here though as responding to 2 different points:

I think a part of it though somethingguy is that pregnancy is no small thing. It lasts 9 months. It’s not even really a case of getting fatter for a few months and woops a little bit of morning sickness temporarily. For some women it can be an absolute nightmare. People may make jokes of hormones but pre (and post)-natal depression is really not that rare at all and well… hormones control how you feel and I’ve seen and heard things which are not pretty in that area. In a sense hormones affect your very behavour and feelings and in pregnancy your own personal control at the time is dubious. For a time your body also contains a fetus attached to the woman which can all sorts of strange and not all that pleasent effects. Sure there’s points of joy and happiness for many women in pregnancy too (it’s not like every single pregnant womean is a basically walking angst 24 hours a day for all those months even late on in the pregnancy) but it’s not a walk in the park physically and mentally for many and it’s not for every woman at all to begin with either. Even if technically they are physically healthy to carry a child to term.

Granted the whole not truely being asked/fully informed (and thus this makes it utterly dubious in terms of true actual and informed consent) would fit a great dark fanfic in a way (though it would be a very high T if not an M in terms of in terms of potential fodder and would be interesting to read. But it would still be potential nightmare fuel or fridge horror in any case. Pregnancy is not easy from what I’ve seen. If culturally robots almost raised humans to consider this normal to not ask it wwould almost be a form of mass cultural ‘grooming’ -shudders-. They don’t know it’s wrong themselves for robots to just do that without asking and simply inject human females with it if they want it to happen because ‘culturally’ it’s seen as normal. Same with the men getting sexually violated in their own way if they are not asked before hand in terms of being sperm donars.

Though if in the mens case if they don’t even really feel it it’s almost like taking advantage of a paralysed child or someone who mentally is like a child about these sorts of things.

That’s pretty chilling.

It’s fine if they ask and tell they tell them of the full ramifications of what is happening and they agree really. But are these people even mentally capable of that? Of giving full consent in this particular area where their viewpoints have become pretty screwed up in?

Cloning is possible TDIT! I never though of that. I still wonder if their bodies would be fit myself for the whole carrying a baby to full term etc though. (Since cloning still requires a vessel to develop it, and today that still involves using a surrogate mother).

The thing with the aging population today isn’t really down to laziness though really but various reasons today though laziness is certainly a major factor in the Axiom. But generally it doesn’t seem to be a thing people on the Axiom are thinking about and doesn’t seem to be in their “culture” to be parents, though some natural parental instincts may exist if John and Mary are any indication… and the captain seems eager to teach the kids about pizza plants. Some of the instinct is still there but it had yet to wake up really. (Probably because with the robots looking after them any such instincts were not ‘activated’ as it were- but seeing the kids in danger called Mary to action with John helping her :smiley:). Honestly though on the Axiom the adults are almost babies themselves, continually baby sat by robots to their every need and getting mushy food to eat. Plus when they start standing they look like babies trying to walk.

I don’t seem them as at that stage being all that capable of raising children.

But now adays it really isn’t laziness to me that there are less children really. It’s a variety of reasons. To me though having or not having a kid are both equally a personal choice. People both choose or not choose to have children because they generally want to in developed countries (most of the time anyway, being utterly forced to not give birth or to give birth to children is disturbing and thankfully generally against the law in most developed countries). It’s generally acceptable for women to be able to choose to not have kids in developed countries at all or have them later because there are more options for women (which is a good thing). A woman can still choose to be a housewife and have a lot of kids but that’s not their only option, so naturally with social advances, choices for women and more equality there will be less children. With careers most women have less or mayhe none at all and are childfree. Also in some cases people take on the wonderful option of adoption and fostering- because that’s less taboo today- as recently as the 70s for instance people were ashamed of the whole concept because it showed that birth families were not necessarily always loving or acceptable. Many kids became ‘dirty little secrets’ unfortnatly.). While adoption is still difficult it’s still better than how it used to be. (And one of my cousins in law is adopted herself- her mother was single and still fosters children today, the wedding was fun with all those kids running around).

Also of course there’s the fact protection is more or less a legal right in most developed countries (not all though) so there’s more ways to prevent more births than you want than strict abstinance which most people don’t seem to be keen on.

In general also families decide they want the best for the kids they have- so tend to have fewer now because they wish to invest more and put more into fewer kids then ‘spreading’ the resources out across more children - more kids go to university eventually than before which is expensive (this can be seen across the generations it seems especially in my family . Also with more medical knowledge it’s very unhealthy to women to have as many kids as they did back then. It greatly lowers your life expectancy as a woman to have the numbers my great-grandparents had -my paternal grandmother had 12 siblings for instance, I have 1 sibling- my paternal Uncle has 4 kids which is above average). So in fact a lower birth rate can in some cases raise the life expectancy of women too by a fair amount!

Plus there’s the fact that medical care has made leaps and bounds so people are living longer in general. It used to be living past 60 wasn’t easy in many areas of the world where it’s now considered a young age to die (but in less fortunate areas in the world this is still unfortunatly a hard age for some to reach to). In fact a major reason as to why people had so many kids in the past in developed and in many developing countries now is because of high infant mortality rate (IMR) (there used to be a thing in my grandparents childhood time for some where you didn’t get ‘too attached’ to kids under the age of 2… because they might not make it and well that was something which would be of course hard to take) not to mention the fact with less or no social security instead kids would look after their parents if they happened to live to old age and all. Hence another incentive to have more children. Often as developing countries become medically and socially more advanced- birth rate doesn’t drop immediately so for a while they have a huge population increase as they have a high birth rate still and yet a much lower/decreasing IMR and Death rate.

As things become more socially comfortable and advanced death rates are the first to decrease and then birth rates follow afterwards. Generally this is because of more choices for women in their adult life (housewife/having lots of kids is still a choice but it’s not the ONLY choice- perhaps though when people are more acceptable of the idea of house husbands and everything, a choice men should also be allowed feel comfortable to take for true equality- birth numbers might rise a little more though they’ll never be as high again for various reasons already stated). It’s just basically how it works as a society advances in various social and medical areas.


But on the Axiom it’s laziness it seems though as really being the reasons for having less kids. It isn’t to do with laziness today but more gender advancement and more acceptance in various areas (though developed countries are obviously not perfect and are still having to advance in various areas). The having less kids thing was just an inevitable resultant factor of this. Not to say there haven’t been some bumps though (like sometimes women having kids a bit too late in life- so late in fact that being alive while the kid is a teenager is actually something they might seriously have to consider as having a reasonable chance of something that just won’t happen).

But as long as the kids are well cared for (and their futures planned for in some way if something bad does happen in the case of aging parents) and loved and happy I think I’m happy enough in those cases myself.

Still, would they even notice?

The women may be able to be fooled into thinking some other medical procedure is occurring but would almost definitly notice they were pregnant eventually or at the very least something was wrong with their bodies. It’s something the vast majority couldn’t fail to notice eventually since of course it’s more than simply just getting bigger or having a bit of sickness at one stage. There’s a birth every 2 seconds in the world and only very few stories have women which somehow ‘don’t notice’ something amiss (sometimes because they don’t seem to gain weight or they still go through their cycle- but this is fantastically rare really). Plus on reflection the men would probably notice since they aren’t really paralysed at all now that I think on it- in the sperm collection. I mean they can walk or stand when they have to they just might not get what’s really going on. But regardless it would still be ethically morally reprehensible for the robots to do this to people if they are not fully aware of the ramifications and just use their bodies like that without them telling them. It would still be wrong if they didn’t give and get full and utterly informed consent.

Granted rather like AUTO a lot of them are perhaps simply following their objectives to the letter even so- which is keeping the human race alive and spanning centuries and when it appears your protected species is as bad as pandas for breeding I guess they could possibly add it to the list of things they’d do. Out of the two what happens to the women is obviously the most disturbing if they do use her as a vessel (since it’s obviously more disgusting to simply use womens bodies for months like that without permission or fully informed permission as opposed to the males violation which lasts a lot shorter- and even if they just took eggs this is a more invasive surgical procedure too for obvious reasons.) But both are pretty disturbing in the end.

Perhaps the least corrupt course of action is really cloning from say cells they take from their skin and growing the child in an artifical womb not in a woman’s body at all- and using the multiplied stored embryonic cells for this purpose of a woman back when consent was more clear cut- I think because a part of me does not think the adults in the way they were COULD actually give that kind of consent from when we see in the movie (since mentally a lot of them seem to be like children and their cultrue doesn’t really allow for much growth in the movie at all where robots take care of everything). Otherwise it takes the robots to an even darker place than AUTO ever was in the movie. They technically otherwise however if they do this are doing it for their main ‘objective’ and what seems to be ‘the good of humanity’ at the real expense of individuals and their own well-being (for the long term in the women’s case too and not only in the months her body would be used or more invasive surgical procedures- as pregnancy and birth reduces life expectancy).

Well, they get through the kids in the day care somehow, but in every case, it has to be some force by the robot’s complete, stubborn regard for their directive, which Wall-E had gotten EVE out of. This is one of the cultural and ultimate flaws that BnL had to go through but had been able to ignore the problem with the help of the crewmembers utter will to their infinite consumerism. So, they went with either forcing the fluids out and injecting them (vesseling as most people infer), or they took stem cell samples from a said group and artificially made babies without even the people’s regard of this (judging by 2805, i think they’ve gotten advanced to make painless stem cell injections), due in part to consumerism like before. This is the sad truth, but with small hope, Wall-E saved everyone from their little virtual dream and BnL was ‘no more?’. I always wondered if anyone would try to reenact the BnL corporation to it’s prime again, whilst they try to develop a stable government for the new colonized Earth.

But, back to the matter, consumerism keeps everyone happy and completely oblivious to the world and the situation around them. Since Wall-E was free of much of the consumerism and the stubborn drive of their ‘directive’, he was the only one capable of much of the freedom he deserves and the virtual reality of the BnL corporation, with the exception of his Hello Dolly! cassette. And like everyone has concluded before, due in part to this individualistic and realizing form that Wall-E has, he is unanimously the most humane being in all of Earth before the events of the Axiom finally landing back to Earth, despite him being a robot, which are apparently autonomous and apathetic in personality.

I think what Wall-E tries to get at is that Robots can be just as humane and full of life just like humans, and vice versa with the Humans being cold and autonomous. I like how an Artificial being was actually capable of understanding and controlling one’s emotions, unlike some others, which ended in a sad way. It’s nice how emotions and making your own choices traded places between the robots and the humans, despite how many robots were inclined to follow their directive. There’s no better example of this selfless, full and empathetic being such as Wall-E, and the trick is, he isn’t human.

He doesn’t have to be.

Well, from what Mary was talking about with her friend, it seems that BnL has a virtual dating service.

I think that compatible couples have DNA samples taken to make a test tube baby! :smiley:

That makes sense! Since they never leave their screens, that is how they would meet friends and boy/girlfriends.