Slightly embarrassing discussion: kids/babies in WALL-E

With your lecture, i could also say that due in part to the more risky yet evolved process of childbirth, maybe that’s why the birth rate seems so slim and the day care so tiny for so many passengers on the Axiom? Also, i don’t even think they would notice having their gene juice spewed out of them since they’re so into their virtual devices, if one could not notice the person they were talking to on their holo-screen was right next to him, i think they couldn’t even notice a little ejaculation and injection in the process either. Parenthood is less substantially coordinated since everyone is in tune to their devices and the virtual world, just like you mentioned, and the PR-T’s just might be there to feel good, not to get lucky. Just like the massage bots, or HAN-S to feel good as well. Maybe, just maybe, they segued their way into the reproduction process as a more enjoyable process for men and women around, since their little cruise is technically a vacation from their ultimate home, and EVERYBODY must have a grand vacation, i mean, with the pool, the massages and the make-up. So maybe they do this with the reproduction process too, if they aren’t so oblivious to the world as i once thought, maybe giving them the illusion that reproduction=enjoyment with Commercial Propaganda and BnL Manipulation may actually help esteem the birthing process in anyway possible, without the use of ‘force’, as i mentioned earlier.

So, not only do all the crewmembers have to live in a virtual reality, every single waking moment of their lives must feel like a vacation, even the more awfully important stuff, such as relationships and breeding. What was once a vacation away from the garbage now became a vacation away from, well, everything. Even theirselves!

Like everything else in the movie, it’s done by robots. I assume that whenever a human dies, then another child is made in an artificial womb in a lab, and it’s life from ‘conception’ to birth is monitered by robots.

The way I see it, the humans in Wall-E’s future don’t necessarily have to donate sperm or eggs for IVF. Perhaps reproduction science has gotten advanced enough that they can grow babies from stem cells or DNA collected from whatever body parts (dandruff, skin shavings, saliva, etc.) without the need for intercourse or donations.

The future that Wall-E is in is certainly terrifying- humans being too lazy to even have kids. Wouldn’t be surprised if this comes true, at the rate populations in developed countries are ageing nowadays, because the birth rate can’t keep up.

.WARNING EPIC LONG POST AHEAD. Split in 2 parts here though as responding to 2 different points:

I think a part of it though somethingguy is that pregnancy is no small thing. It lasts 9 months. It’s not even really a case of getting fatter for a few months and woops a little bit of morning sickness temporarily. For some women it can be an absolute nightmare. People may make jokes of hormones but pre (and post)-natal depression is really not that rare at all and well… hormones control how you feel and I’ve seen and heard things which are not pretty in that area. In a sense hormones affect your very behavour and feelings and in pregnancy your own personal control at the time is dubious. For a time your body also contains a fetus attached to the woman which can all sorts of strange and not all that pleasent effects. Sure there’s points of joy and happiness for many women in pregnancy too (it’s not like every single pregnant womean is a basically walking angst 24 hours a day for all those months even late on in the pregnancy) but it’s not a walk in the park physically and mentally for many and it’s not for every woman at all to begin with either. Even if technically they are physically healthy to carry a child to term.

Granted the whole not truely being asked/fully informed (and thus this makes it utterly dubious in terms of true actual and informed consent) would fit a great dark fanfic in a way (though it would be a very high T if not an M in terms of fanfiction.net) in terms of potential fodder and would be interesting to read. But it would still be potential nightmare fuel or fridge horror in any case. Pregnancy is not easy from what I’ve seen. If culturally robots almost raised humans to consider this normal to not ask it wwould almost be a form of mass cultural ‘grooming’ -shudders-. They don’t know it’s wrong themselves for robots to just do that without asking and simply inject human females with it if they want it to happen because ‘culturally’ it’s seen as normal. Same with the men getting sexually violated in their own way if they are not asked before hand in terms of being sperm donars.

Though if in the mens case if they don’t even really feel it it’s almost like taking advantage of a paralysed child or someone who mentally is like a child about these sorts of things.

That’s pretty chilling.

It’s fine if they ask and tell they tell them of the full ramifications of what is happening and they agree really. But are these people even mentally capable of that? Of giving full consent in this particular area where their viewpoints have become pretty screwed up in?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cloning is possible TDIT! I never though of that. I still wonder if their bodies would be fit myself for the whole carrying a baby to full term etc though. (Since cloning still requires a vessel to develop it, and today that still involves using a surrogate mother).

The thing with the aging population today isn’t really down to laziness though really but various reasons today though laziness is certainly a major factor in the Axiom. But generally it doesn’t seem to be a thing people on the Axiom are thinking about and doesn’t seem to be in their “culture” to be parents, though some natural parental instincts may exist if John and Mary are any indication… and the captain seems eager to teach the kids about pizza plants. Some of the instinct is still there but it had yet to wake up really. (Probably because with the robots looking after them any such instincts were not ‘activated’ as it were- but seeing the kids in danger called Mary to action with John helping her :smiley:). Honestly though on the Axiom the adults are almost babies themselves, continually baby sat by robots to their every need and getting mushy food to eat. Plus when they start standing they look like babies trying to walk.

I don’t seem them as at that stage being all that capable of raising children.

But now adays it really isn’t laziness to me that there are less children really. It’s a variety of reasons. To me though having or not having a kid are both equally a personal choice. People both choose or not choose to have children because they generally want to in developed countries (most of the time anyway, being utterly forced to not give birth or to give birth to children is disturbing and thankfully generally against the law in most developed countries). It’s generally acceptable for women to be able to choose to not have kids in developed countries at all or have them later because there are more options for women (which is a good thing). A woman can still choose to be a housewife and have a lot of kids but that’s not their only option, so naturally with social advances, choices for women and more equality there will be less children. With careers most women have less or mayhe none at all and are childfree. Also in some cases people take on the wonderful option of adoption and fostering- because that’s less taboo today- as recently as the 70s for instance people were ashamed of the whole concept because it showed that birth families were not necessarily always loving or acceptable. Many kids became ‘dirty little secrets’ unfortnatly.). While adoption is still difficult it’s still better than how it used to be. (And one of my cousins in law is adopted herself- her mother was single and still fosters children today, the wedding was fun with all those kids running around).

Also of course there’s the fact protection is more or less a legal right in most developed countries (not all though) so there’s more ways to prevent more births than you want than strict abstinance which most people don’t seem to be keen on.

In general also families decide they want the best for the kids they have- so tend to have fewer now because they wish to invest more and put more into fewer kids then ‘spreading’ the resources out across more children - more kids go to university eventually than before which is expensive (this can be seen across the generations it seems especially in my family . Also with more medical knowledge it’s very unhealthy to women to have as many kids as they did back then. It greatly lowers your life expectancy as a woman to have the numbers my great-grandparents had -my paternal grandmother had 12 siblings for instance, I have 1 sibling- my paternal Uncle has 4 kids which is above average). So in fact a lower birth rate can in some cases raise the life expectancy of women too by a fair amount!

Plus there’s the fact that medical care has made leaps and bounds so people are living longer in general. It used to be living past 60 wasn’t easy in many areas of the world where it’s now considered a young age to die (but in less fortunate areas in the world this is still unfortunatly a hard age for some to reach to). In fact a major reason as to why people had so many kids in the past in developed and in many developing countries now is because of high infant mortality rate (IMR) (there used to be a thing in my grandparents childhood time for some where you didn’t get ‘too attached’ to kids under the age of 2… because they might not make it and well that was something which would be of course hard to take) not to mention the fact with less or no social security instead kids would look after their parents if they happened to live to old age and all. Hence another incentive to have more children. Often as developing countries become medically and socially more advanced- birth rate doesn’t drop immediately so for a while they have a huge population increase as they have a high birth rate still and yet a much lower/decreasing IMR and Death rate.

As things become more socially comfortable and advanced death rates are the first to decrease and then birth rates follow afterwards. Generally this is because of more choices for women in their adult life (housewife/having lots of kids is still a choice but it’s not the ONLY choice- perhaps though when people are more acceptable of the idea of house husbands and everything, a choice men should also be allowed feel comfortable to take for true equality- birth numbers might rise a little more though they’ll never be as high again for various reasons already stated). It’s just basically how it works as a society advances in various social and medical areas.

-shrugs-

But on the Axiom it’s laziness it seems though as really being the reasons for having less kids. It isn’t to do with laziness today but more gender advancement and more acceptance in various areas (though developed countries are obviously not perfect and are still having to advance in various areas). The having less kids thing was just an inevitable resultant factor of this. Not to say there haven’t been some bumps though (like sometimes women having kids a bit too late in life- so late in fact that being alive while the kid is a teenager is actually something they might seriously have to consider as having a reasonable chance of something that just won’t happen).

But as long as the kids are well cared for (and their futures planned for in some way if something bad does happen in the case of aging parents) and loved and happy I think I’m happy enough in those cases myself.

Still, would they even notice?

The women may be able to be fooled into thinking some other medical procedure is occurring but would almost definitly notice they were pregnant eventually or at the very least something was wrong with their bodies. It’s something the vast majority couldn’t fail to notice eventually since of course it’s more than simply just getting bigger or having a bit of sickness at one stage. There’s a birth every 2 seconds in the world and only very few stories have women which somehow ‘don’t notice’ something amiss (sometimes because they don’t seem to gain weight or they still go through their cycle- but this is fantastically rare really). Plus on reflection the men would probably notice since they aren’t really paralysed at all now that I think on it- in the sperm collection. I mean they can walk or stand when they have to they just might not get what’s really going on. But regardless it would still be ethically morally reprehensible for the robots to do this to people if they are not fully aware of the ramifications and just use their bodies like that without them telling them. It would still be wrong if they didn’t give and get full and utterly informed consent.

Granted rather like AUTO a lot of them are perhaps simply following their objectives to the letter even so- which is keeping the human race alive and spanning centuries and when it appears your protected species is as bad as pandas for breeding I guess they could possibly add it to the list of things they’d do. Out of the two what happens to the women is obviously the most disturbing if they do use her as a vessel (since it’s obviously more disgusting to simply use womens bodies for months like that without permission or fully informed permission as opposed to the males violation which lasts a lot shorter- and even if they just took eggs this is a more invasive surgical procedure too for obvious reasons.) But both are pretty disturbing in the end.

Perhaps the least corrupt course of action is really cloning from say cells they take from their skin and growing the child in an artifical womb not in a woman’s body at all- and using the multiplied stored embryonic cells for this purpose of a woman back when consent was more clear cut- I think because a part of me does not think the adults in the way they were COULD actually give that kind of consent from when we see in the movie (since mentally a lot of them seem to be like children and their cultrue doesn’t really allow for much growth in the movie at all where robots take care of everything). Otherwise it takes the robots to an even darker place than AUTO ever was in the movie. They technically otherwise however if they do this are doing it for their main ‘objective’ and what seems to be ‘the good of humanity’ at the real expense of individuals and their own well-being (for the long term in the women’s case too and not only in the months her body would be used or more invasive surgical procedures- as pregnancy and birth reduces life expectancy).

Well, they get through the kids in the day care somehow, but in every case, it has to be some force by the robot’s complete, stubborn regard for their directive, which Wall-E had gotten EVE out of. This is one of the cultural and ultimate flaws that BnL had to go through but had been able to ignore the problem with the help of the crewmembers utter will to their infinite consumerism. So, they went with either forcing the fluids out and injecting them (vesseling as most people infer), or they took stem cell samples from a said group and artificially made babies without even the people’s regard of this (judging by 2805, i think they’ve gotten advanced to make painless stem cell injections), due in part to consumerism like before. This is the sad truth, but with small hope, Wall-E saved everyone from their little virtual dream and BnL was ‘no more?’. I always wondered if anyone would try to reenact the BnL corporation to it’s prime again, whilst they try to develop a stable government for the new colonized Earth.

But, back to the matter, consumerism keeps everyone happy and completely oblivious to the world and the situation around them. Since Wall-E was free of much of the consumerism and the stubborn drive of their ‘directive’, he was the only one capable of much of the freedom he deserves and the virtual reality of the BnL corporation, with the exception of his Hello Dolly! cassette. And like everyone has concluded before, due in part to this individualistic and realizing form that Wall-E has, he is unanimously the most humane being in all of Earth before the events of the Axiom finally landing back to Earth, despite him being a robot, which are apparently autonomous and apathetic in personality.

I think what Wall-E tries to get at is that Robots can be just as humane and full of life just like humans, and vice versa with the Humans being cold and autonomous. I like how an Artificial being was actually capable of understanding and controlling one’s emotions, unlike some others, which ended in a sad way. It’s nice how emotions and making your own choices traded places between the robots and the humans, despite how many robots were inclined to follow their directive. There’s no better example of this selfless, full and empathetic being such as Wall-E, and the trick is, he isn’t human.

He doesn’t have to be.

Well, from what Mary was talking about with her friend, it seems that BnL has a virtual dating service.

I think that compatible couples have DNA samples taken to make a test tube baby! :smiley:

That makes sense! Since they never leave their screens, that is how they would meet friends and boy/girlfriends.

Ah yeah well that seems plausible.

we will appoint a scientist specially for the babies as wall -e is a robot “it” has no potential to produce one.

just a tought but dont you think that maybe the babies in the axiom are actually clones? think about it , we never see the babys interacting with their parents so maybe the robots just take dna from people and modify it so the new generation of babies is able to live longer, that would explain why the captains of the axiom lasted so long

Actually, the real reason that the people lived for so long is because they’ve lived for so long in Microgravity, and since Microgravity is fake gravity, and gravity is a determining factor for age (yet they tend to track time normally as if on Earth), people are able to live longer in a artificial gravity. i would imagine something as extracting DnA could be in the works since the Humans are too lazy to do the, um, work, theirselves!

It figures.

I was going to say that’s so unnatural! But then again so is living in giant spaceships lightyears from Earth.

And having robots that at any point could go against their directive. Good thing something like I, Robot didn’t happen!

That movie really scared me!

still a great movie however.

But, anywho, back to the point. Since robots don’t have their own reproductive hardware, persay, i guess the humans would have to build one for them, but then it would be more like an adopted child and not one bred out of both the wires of Wall-E and EVE. Still, I wouldn’t suggest that E-RIC wall-e/eve mix a match!

Hmm… lots of interesting ideas here! I have to admit, the whole children thing bothered me when I first saw WALL-E…

I think that DNA is taken from all of the men and women on the ship, and the children are created artificially, in a lab. This would allow the ship to control the birthrate and prevent overpopulation. The parents probably wouldn’t know if they had a biological child or not. This is also why there is such a large emphasis on lack of communication between the passengers- it would be dangerous for too many couples to add to the population. Also, that way the robots could make sure that the children were being raised the “right” way, and wouldn’t cause problems as adults.

The dating service idea is good too. The ship could matchmake couples before they got to meet in the flesh and potentially have children!

Weird theory: maybe there is some technology that prevents people on the Axiom never to age, and the babies that were on the ship are babies when they came from Earth.