That happens a lot here(and it’s usually my fault.) It’s even more lately…
Thank you Daughter of Eve! High-five! And IV, don’t feel bad. You’re a peacemaker on this board and you try to understand other peoples’ opinions. There is too much fighting going on here. I like arguments when they aren’t heated and there are no angry feelings, but things took a bad turn…
Thanks, Leirin. I just feel like I start lot of arguments.
Actually wouldn’t you say people getting fired up and having strong feelings about people’s opinions a good thing when talking about TS3? Shows people care about the movie, with the fact they’re showing a degree of passion (like/dislike) in their opinion. Better for a movie to have strong opinions attached to it (even though nobody dislikes TS3) whether they like it or not, then to people just to shrug and ignore it.
All publicity is good publicity. 
But she meant to be nice to other people, not necessarily the movie itself.
Okay, wow. I thought everyone was going to trample me for saying something like that. 
No, I did not mean the movie itself. Personally, I don’t really like TS3, but that’s not your problem, now is it? That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a good movie, though. Someone may have a deep, personal connection with it, but I don’t… and there’s no problem with that. What bugs me is when people think that just because it’s a “legacy” or what-have-you, everyone is supposed to like it. That’s where I disagree. Please, people. Let everyone have their own opinion. Let’s just all be happy and get along because we’re different, okay?
And yes. These forums have been getting quite fired up recently. 
It was never that way before…
Just to clear things up, IV, you are usually the peacekeeper. Not the one starting the arguments. Stop being so hard on yourself, girl!
It’s interesting to see people get so worked up over contrarian opinions. I don’t really see what’s the problem with zinem’s post, he may be a bit of a Bolt fanboy (sorry about that, zinem ) but he does offer some valid arguments against TS3.
This is what really annoys me. Pixar elitists (or elitists of any studio, for that matter). You are entitled to like and defend TS3, but making personal attacks like claiming someone wants to be “cool” or “hating” on a “masterpiece like TS3” comes off as arrogant and imposing.
Please do not attack the person. Attack his/her arguments. Or at least, seek to understand it. There’s a fine difference. At the end of the day, if we disagree, we can still be friends. But once you start vindicating someone for not sharing your opinion on what constitutes a ‘masterpiece’ or not, that crosses the line.
For the record, I liked TS3. Does this mean that I’m immune to criticising it? No. And neither should anyone else be.
This bothered me as well, but I wasn’t going to say anything. Apparently others (and probably me as well) have crossed the from defending the movie (which again, I personally don’t have a single complaint with) to resorting to personal attacks.
And on the topic of pop culture references: Having Totoro in the 3rd movie is no more a pop-culture reference than having Mr. Potato Head. If the first movie could have things like Pizza Planet, Sid’s black-light posters, and other very nineties things, then I can’t see why an ipod is a problem. The nineties feel of the first movie didn’t make it dated, it is just a great movie that happens to be set in the nineties. The same is true for number 3.
I am pret-ty sure it’s arguments like this one that have kept me so turned off from PixarPlanet these days, resulting in me leaving it completely for several weeks.
And to be honest with you, I feel like I’m not free to express my opinions anymore, because I’m going to get jumped all over for having an unpopular opinion, which, unfortunately has happened to poor zinem here who, as TDIT already said, has some extremely valid points here about TS3. I shouldn’t have to feel that way, though. I should be able to give my reasons as to why I disagree with you, while stating why, without someone jumping on my back and saying “You’re just saying that cuz it’s popular to hate this and that movie.” (So when did that shallow argument become popular, I wonder? It makes absolutely no sense. )
While being absent I’ve been lurking, and all I see is heated arguments everywhere I look. Does that make me want to come back and join discussion? Not really.
I’m not pitying myself here or anything like that at all, don’t get me wrong. And I definitely don’t meant to come off as a jerk or a meanie here, nor am I deliberately trying to fuel the argument or keep it going. (I really want it to end! ) What I’m saying is, PixarPlanet has always been a place where everyone agrees to disagree. Yes, there are times when certain discussions get heated, but typically, when discussing the different Pixar films we can always keep a friendly attitude towards each other. And if that friendly atmosphere disappears, people like me are going to disappear too, because we don’t feel comfortable speaking our mind. I’ve never meant to be rude about my opinion and I don’t think anyone else here who has negative feelings about different aspects of the Pixar films has been deliberately rude, either. It’s not fair to us to get attacked for having a different opinion, especially when we never meant offense in the first place.
I apologize for ranting here a bit, and possibly throwing everything off topic, but I’ve pent it up for a while and I guess I felt it needed to be said. If the mods disagree, I’m totally cool with you deleting this or moving this or whatever you think should be done with it. Let’s all learn to chill out a bit and argue more peaceably, if it’s at all possible (and I know it is). Opinions are opinions. And usually in the end, you’re not going to change someone else’s mind no matter how many valid points you raise. But at the same time, you should still be able to listen to what they have to say, and politely disagree with them while giving reasons as to why you disagree on the issue.
There’s not much more I can say about this, I guess. 
little chef
I wasn’t attacking the iPod thing, I was just saying that was the only pop culture thing I noticed. That’s not positive or negative, I just didn’t notice many pop culture references. Which I think is good.
Thanks, DoE. I just wanted to apologize in advance in case I offended anyone. 
Aw, L-C, I’m sorry. I’m even more sorry that that’s why you left, because my feelings on things start some of the arguments. 
I’m sorry, and you are missed.
The ‘dumb blond’ was one of the smartest characters in the movie. And your ‘closet homo’ as you tastefully put it spent the whole movie trying to get a girlfriend. And all the kids I know understood the prison breakout which had the bare minimum of references to other films.As for character development Woody learnt to let go, Buzz learned to talk to girls and Potato Head finally accepted his 'children. And using Bolt as a comparison is terrible.
Please don’t triple-quote or quote the entire post. Quote only the section you’re rebutting to. TDIT
The only ‘pop culture reference’ with Ken is that they actually dressed him up that way in the 80s.
Gaaah I had hoped that no one would continue with this stupid argument. D:
People, seriously can you please stop bashing zinem for liking Bolt? Please??
I’m done here.
Okay, that’s it. I felt that we could leave it where it was but heck, challenge accepted.
What on earth are you talking about? The dumb blond Barbie girl was a conspicuous reference to the dumb blond stereotype and the only time she shows just a little bit of contrast in personality is when she says that “Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not from the threat of force!” And the only thing about that quote is the joke was based on the irony of having a “stupid blond” saying something complex to begin with! Really, you have every right to disagree but right now I feel that you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, more than anything else.
The fact that Ken was a closet homosexual was even more obvious, and not anything the most ambitious fans of Toy Story 3 would deny. As to the character development. I think I’ve provided good arguments as to way I think the characters in this movie didn’t display complex personalities.
There are basically only two characters in this movie worth mentioning, and those are Woody and Buzz. The other dozen of toys basically functions like one, big indecisive group in the movie, with one shared voice and one opinion. I just find it illogical that they would be so impulsive when judging Andy after their many experiences. But I guess they all agree with Buzz, (when they are about to leave for the daycare center) not because there is any logical reason for them to do so, but because their only function is to move from the backdrop of Andy’s room to the new setting of the daycare center, so that the plot can move on.
Most of these toys, Mr. Potato, his wife, that pink pig, they are just humorous side characters with about one, shallow personality each: this is the grumpy old potato man, this is the dumb, blond stereotype, this is the loud, dim-witted comic relief T-rex, and so forth. I can’t escape the feeling that the directors behind the movie don’t treat their characters with respect. The many characters’ only function in the movie is to be stupid and end up in stupid situations and most of them spend more time being chewed on by drooling babies than showing any personality, whatsoever.
I wish that the main characters, Buzz Lightyear and Woody, would at least be any different. But even though they get both more screen time and dialogs, none of them feature any deep character development. Woody is the same whiny, generic protagonist he was in the other movies. But it’s okay. He doesn’t change because the plot requires him to stay the same. But Woody was never the star of this series, No, it was the space ranger Buzz who stole the show back in 1995. In Toy Story 3, the ugly doll is reduced to pure, stupid and brain-dead entertainment. As I said, basically, the only character development Buzz embodies doesn’t go beyond the switching of the button on his back. Literally.
And just what do you mean with “having Bolt as a comparison is terrible” Do you suggest that Bolt is a terrible movie in comparison or that the comparison itself is terrible? I think the characters in Bolt developed a lot. Particularly Bolt who, in only 80 minutes, shows an extraordinary spectrum of emotions and complexes, including mental denial, identity crisis, self-realization and self-actualization. However, this character doesn’t speak much and his development is on a more subtle, sophisticated manner. I can only assume that most people failed to notice the depth of this character.
(I know I said I wouldn’t post here again, but I just had to say this.) Personally, zinem, I think your comparison to Bolt is perfect. Honestly, I never saw that side of the movie before, and to hear someone like you passionately talk about a “forgettable” movie like Bolt is so refreshing to hear. I also really liked how you described the character change in this one sentence:
Quite true, my friend.
You definitely bring up some very good points. The animators (and directors as well) made it a very strong point to make known that Ken was quite… umm… eccentric, if I can put it that way… they even went as far as to put the letter at the end of the movie and bring up the fact that the girly handwriting was Ken’s. 
I felt that it was mainly to get a good laugh out of the adult audience.
Barbie is definitely the “dumb blonde” stereotype. I’m assuming she is the same Barbie they met in TS2? If so, then her personality was way off in the third.
As far as the other characters go, Hamm, Rex, Mr. Potato Head (and Mrs.), and the others were just there for comedic relief. They never had any real significance to me… and I don’t believe they were very important to the movie, either.
You’re right. The main characters should’ve been treated with a bit more respect, but Woody has always been the sarcastic one, and Buzz the delusional one. I guess they just wanted it to stay true to the other movies.
Again, just stating my opinion. I’m not trying to bash anyone, okay?
dumb blonde maybe you should watch the commentary of the film and learn that barbie is not the dumb blonde here and stop comparing it to bolt ok we get it you love bolt but stop just using as a defense for when people point out flaws in your criticisms so can you please calm down I’m not trying to be mean or harsh but its all you keep saying in every post and to say the directors of this movie dont treat there characters with is just a plain out lie I mean if any thing they treat them with a great deal of respect think about it did they do any thing to degrade them no did they have any of them just be unlike they were in the first two no so why do you critisize every thing about it
Good points, zinem. I’m sorry to say, though, but doesn’t Bolt have pop-culture references too, especially with regards to the first half of the movie with the action TV-show spoof opening sequence and Bolt’s rampant commercialisation on billboards and bus panels? Just want to point that out.
Yeah, that bit kinda bugged me too.
I wouldn’t use such harsh words to describe the characters as such, but I understand how you frustrated you are about the lack of character development in TS3. It’s a reason why I found it hard to emphatise with the characters too. Woody still comes of as whiny, although by the end of the movie, he does complete his character arc of forgiveness and acceptance. Buzz, unfortunately, doesn’t change much beyond his little Spanish schtick and the resolution of his romantic interest with Jessie. Jessie doesn’t really get much to do, as do the rest of the cast. Lotso, like many Pixar villains, is relegated to ‘irredeemable’ and ‘unrepentant’, which doesn’t really send a good message to kids about redemption and the possibility of change (as opposed to other movies like Megamind or Despicable Me). Once a bad guy, always a bad guy.
Whereas with say, Bolt, Bolt eventually realizes his entire world is an illusion (which is a bit like The Truman Show, but one of my prevailing mantras is “Nothing is original”). Mittens eventually learns to forgive her previous owner and herself, and trust another person (or animal) to protect her. Rhino, unfortunately, doesn’t change much, but he does get to step out of his ‘comfort zone’ both in a figurative and literal sense (when he leaves his bubble) to get the adventure of a lifetime he always wanted.
I could go on the same trek with HTTYD, LOTG, Despicable Me, or any other amazing animated movie from 2011, but I think you guys get the point. TS3 failed (and I don’t mean failed entirely, I meant failed in a few aspects) for me because the characters don’t go undergo much ‘growth’ or change, with the exception of Woody. Oh, and Barbie. Yeah, Barbie and Ken were another great ‘agents of change’.
I believe with everything little_chef says here. While she and I might not agree on some things (like how babies are so adorable, or how Christianity is so awesome and all that), at the end of the day we don’t take things personally and can still remain friends. I really don’t see why the same thing can’t be applied to something as inconsequential (in terms of everyday life) as movies. I’m not saying we should not have friendly debates and bounce ideas off each other, cos’ that kind of thing is fun. I had a very meaningful conversation with Czarine in the My Little Ponies thread, and although we had disagreements, we didn’t resort to “I think you should stop criticizing something” or “I can’t believe you don’t think this is a masterpiece” line of arguments.
So far nobody seems to be taking apart zinem’s arguments methodically or eloquently. 
Yeah, I agree with this bit too. That’s why I didn’t really feel the ‘magic’ as I did with the previous movies.
Again, TS3 is a very good movie. But I believe we should be free to criticise aspects of it without reservations, and of course, for the uber-fans, they, too, have the right to defend it.
Agreed. Especially since this is a Toy Story 3 thread, not a Bolt one.
where did my comment go? DDD: did it get deleted or something? SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOWWW.
but i’m just gonna rewrite it to get my opinion out there. SO.
while i don’t agree with you entirely (i actually enjoyed the film quite a bit), you do make some very valid points that i certainly agree with (to an extent) and manage to sound mostly mature and not whiny, so good job. however, everyone is entitled to an opinion. so if somebody wants to call the film inspiring or a masterpiece, they can because it’s their opinion. i don’t agree with their opinion, but they are certainly entitled to one, whether they loved the film or not.
as for your last statement about the portrayal of children, bear in mind that those two children are, a) of completely different age groups and b) completely different situations. i mean, look at bonnie. she was kind of flat, but she also came across as sweet and imaginative.
i also feel that your “closet homo” comment could’ve been worded a little better. though i was surprised how far pixar went down the “ken is a closeted gay HAHAHAHAHAHAHA” road, it could also be because he’s a ~barbie doll. and aren’t those ~known for their clothes? :3 just a thought. (although i do think some of it, namely the handwriting bit in the closing credits, was a little too much and trying a little too hard.)
i think my biggest beef i had with this film was that, a lot of the time, it felt like it was pandering for emotion rather than trying to just be genuine. i mean, really, i’ve loved these characters since i was little - the over-the-top emotional manipulation really isn’t necessary.
however, i did adore the last scene with bonnie and andy. bittersweet perfection~
i do agree with whoever said that lotso had no real motivations. i mean, why? and i felt the flashback bit was kind of melodramatic and corny. if i’d just been told what happened straightforward without all the dramatic lighting and music, i’d have felt just as sorry for him.
as for character development, i feel like the only one who’s really changed at all is woody. you might disagree, but i think it was nice to see him step up and become the leader he’s always had the potential to be. long gone is the jealous, spoiled “favorite” that i remember from the first movie. everyone else, however, i felt lacked any real character development at all and a lot of them were borderline annoying. the only ones i really cared about were woody, slinky, and bullseye. spanish buzz was funny, but buzz was basically deluded henchman buzz or spanish!buzz the entire time, which i found to be kind of grating. and all the times he was ~himself, he had like two lines of dialogue.
as for the incinerator scene, i feel like i’m the only one who wasn’t totally buying it. i mean, the joining of hands and the whole ~we live & die as a family~ message really was touching, but i felt that overall the scene was overkill. i like when so-called children’s films can be dark and demented, but this bit just felt kind of forced to me. huh.
so, in conclusion, you’ve made some very good points, zinem. i liked the film. i didn’t loved nor did i hate it, but tbh, i felt like it pales in comparison to the three most recent pixar films (ratatouille, wall-e, & up), which are sometimes referred as pixar’s ‘indie’ films. i feel those three i mentioned did a much better job at conveying raw and honest emotion while still being sweet and fun. how toy story 3 is rated higher than all of them (heck, the fact that it’s rated higher than ~all of pixar’s films except for the first two toy story films, really) is beyond me. it’s far from being their worst movie, but i feel that a good majority of pixar’s other films are much better.
about bolt, which is irrelevant but whatever, i’ve seen it once and really liked it, but i’ve never really had the desire to see it again. it was cute, though, and miley cyrus’ voice didn’t annoy me nearly as much as i expected it to, lol.
honestly, i wasn’t really completely satisfied with any animated film last year. (the only two that exceeded my expectations were despicable me and tangled, probably because my expectations weren’t very high to begin with.)
so thank you for posting your opinion, because you’ve allowed me to think about a lot and i actually feel a lot better now.
have a nice day/night/whatever time it is where you are. :'D
AND HERE’S TO HOPING THIS ACTUALLY POSTS THIS TIME ASDFGHJKL;
While I do believe that some of your points make sense, I just wanna ask: “How much more character development do you need?” They’ve had two whole movies to develop. The only characters that need to develop are the new characters such as Lotso. That’s all I have to say.