There are probably at least a hundred archived discussion threads relating to this movie, and it’s a pretty deep film in itself, and yet it seems like me and a handful of others are the only ones left who still wish to discuss those deep themes even though the hype has gone down.
Or it could be I’m the only one left who still wants to talk about this movie. I’m not sure.
I’d ask mods to revive a few of the old threads, because they can do that if I ask, but… what would be the point if there’s no one else to talk with me? I’d just be bumping a lot of old threads at that point.
Could someone please enlighten me and assure me I’m not the only one who misses deep discussion of this film?
Hey I’m willing to talk about it too as well as you want, been a while but I DID enjoy this film.
Especially interesting how there were some definite elements of “Truth in Television” regarding Linguini’s parental background when it comes to France (you know being illegitimate and all- of course it’s even more common here in Britain, but France has definitly got its fair share in THAT department). I’m wondering myself in what capacity his parents met precisely. It’s fun to ponder over things like that. As well as things like that, the deeper themes involved can be fun to think about. I was never into cookery myself (or the reality shows), but Ratatouille definitly was interesting in showing the workings of a kitchen- and the politics involved. Before Ratatouille, I didn’t really fully grasp HOW male dominated the area was- I mean, I knew more male people were chefs, but still it was pretty good and a rather fascinating area.
Any theme in particular however?
Ratatouille needs more appreciation really IMO too.
In all honesty, I truly miss conversing about Ratatouille in general, including its numerous characters, deep themes, and finely crafted story. Back when Ratatouille first came out, this forum was rampant with debate on the film, and I thoroughly enjoyed engaging in the many intriguing conversations that a fair portion of us members had. Then again, I reveled in anything that had to with the film – I loved the posters, the footage, the behind-the-scenes featurettes, the reviews, and, most of all, the hype. There was something very… comforting and beautiful to me about seeing that film in the theater week after week, laughing along with everyone else in the cinema, engaging in exciting events that had to do with the film, and the list goes on. Even the simple things, such as listening to the film’s soundtrack play outside of the El Capitan Theater while I waited in line to see the movie there, or browsing the latest line of Ratatouille merchandise, brought more smiles to my face than I ever remember having (at least as far as movies are concerned – heheh). I literally got close to tears once 2007 passed on, because I knew that I would never participate in those experiences again…
But I digress. In a nutshell, I know exactly what you mean, and I do miss the discussions we all used to have about this movie. The fact that they would eventually shrink into the shadows was inevitable, though. One film exits through the back door and another slips into the spotlight to replace its precedessor. Ratatouille was all the rage back then, but now it’s simply old news. It’s still highly appreciated and raved about, of course, but not to the extent that it used to be when it was first released. The same thing has happened to every Pixar film, and I only wish that the excitement and activity that danced around each of those productions lasted longer…
I understand what you mean, little_chef. Having joined this forum in early 2008, the Ratatouille ‘craze’ was dying down, and I was more excited about Wall-E at the time. But I wished I had someone to talk about the finer aspects of the movie, having enjoyed it a few months ago. After reading reviews and rewatching the film during the commentaries, I realise there was so much layers to Brad’s masterpiece (much like any Pixar movie really). Pixar film are like onions… sorry, bad Shrek reference.
But don’t despair. I guess we can use this thread instead to further discuss the movie. Hopefully after a few bumps, it will get people talking again. I considered writing about Pixar movie themes as a thesis or a book (but my writing skills are not up to par yet). For Ratatouille alone, there’s (off the top of my head):
the idealistic dreams of foreign immigrants vs reality
the ownership of artistic property
feminism and male-chauvinism in the workplace
equal opportunity practices and racism in the workplace
the erosion of food culture and fine dining to fast-food and convenience
the validity and truth of professional criticism
I can go on and probably uncover a couple more… the great thing about Pixar movies is that you can enjoy them on a ‘kid’ level (a rat wants to become a chef) or appreciate it for its more mature themes. Unlike most animation nowadays…
… It IS kind of what tend to put Pixar ahead of the game at the end of the day after all.
It was always ‘‘okay’’ for adults to like animation but Pixar made it even more ‘‘okay’’ perhaps in their own way.
That doesn’t make any sense does it?
Heh.
Granted, I did like the whole dreams vs reality thing as mentioned. Ratatouille did indeed have interesting adult concepts and this was one of them. Remy may have been a rat but it gives an interesting premise as well to think about- what if YOU were close to Remy’s place in society (as in, you had no status and little chance of getting far)? What would you do?
Anton Ego himself was interesting- and I agree on what you said about criticism being an important part of improvement- but it also results in further questions- HOW should you criticise? Is it a free for all? (You can tell them they are absoultely terrible without being polite about it at all.) Or not?
I get what you mean. It was “cool” for adults to like animation again. I mean, it’s a lot easier to talk about the action scenes in The Incredible or the opening montage of Up, than say, to talk about Bambi or The Little Mermaid. The classics were great, but unfortunately most people have forgotten them or think of them as ‘for kids’. Pixar managed to bridge the ‘great divide’, so to speak.
Interesting questions raised. In a way, Ratatouille is like An American Tail, but in France (and it’s been ages since I’ve seen that Don Bluth movie). Anton Ego is also Pixar’s best anti-villain since… well, maybe Mirage or Molt.
Well, this sort of thing has happened with pretty much every Pixar film- there’s been lots of discussion in the particular section of the forum to do with an upcoming Pixar film, then the discussion heightens when the film is released, and then after a year or more it tends to die down unless there are new developments. A year or two ago, the Toy Story section was relatively quiet, but with the upcoming release of Toy Story 3 it’s become very active again, whilst the previously active Up section of the forums is much quieter then previously. It’s like a cycle, almost.
But if there’s still things you want to discuss about Ratatouille and its meanings, feel free to make new threads about whatever you’d like to discuss! I’m sure more people than you realise would reply.
Mitch: Ugh, stop it!! Your post made me wanna cry! Simply thinking about that summer brings back so many memories and so much nostalgia. Sometimes when I’m listening to certain scores from the film, it hits me a certain way and tons of memories come flooding back. I can feel that summer, smell that summer; oftentimes recall intimate conversations my sister and I had about that film over the course of that summer. I’m not sure what it was about this film, but it rekindled a fire and love for animation, film, music, art, and Pixar in general - and that love and passion has only grown since the summer of '07. If it weren’t for that film, I may not have gotten better at art as fast as I did. By the end of that year, I had gone from drawing thumb-sized, disproportional cartoons lacking personality and individual style to detailed, shaded portraits of characters I had only dreamed of drawing before.
I have to agree that every movie has its moment to shine and bursts of intense fandom, but many of those crazy fans will never lose their love for that particular film. Ever. The thing with Ratatouille is, it’s such a deep movie with so many intricate themes and grown-up ideas that one could discuss it for hours on end, even now three years after its release. Well, at least I could, and I’m surprised I’ve found a few who are still willing to discuss it with me and share opinions.
Oh man, that one idea in particular has driven me nuts since the film was released. Why in the world they don’t reveal more about that just makes me wanna pull my hair out. There are so many ways it could have played out, and I myself kind of have some ideas regarding the matter. Another thing I’ve wondered is how much the other chefs may have known about said situation - was Renata really the only one who knew about her child being Gusteau’s? I mean, Larousse was the one to remind Skinner that the new recruit was “Alfredo Linguini, Renata’s little boy”. He also seemed to have knowledge of Renata and Auguste’s previous relationship. Come on. If he knew both of those things, that’s like a HUGE piece of the puzzle right there! He must have known about it. He treats Alfredo with such respect, and even said that Gusteau wouldn’t have hesitated to hire him, since he was Renata’s son.
That’s wrong. Nowhere in her letter did Renata ever say she didn’t tell Gusteau. All she said was “I have never told anyone this” - “anyone” could be simply people outside her circle of friends and family, and the press. Gusteau may have known, but how much he may have said about it to anyone is uncertain.
It’s true that many will have dreams beyond their reach and, possibly because of their social standing or family background, will be shunned by society and denied the abilities to pursue those dreams simply because of something they can’t change about themselves. Ratatouille addresses this problem well. Personally, I feel like I’m faced with this in my own life: my dreams to become “someone”, to contribute to the world through art, music and film, is subconsciously deemed impossible by those around me, as I live in a small town and the mindset is kinda like, “Well, you grew up with nothing, you grew up small - you’ll never be able to accomplish those big dreams.” I was homeschooled my entire life, and to that most would scoff and say “She’s a homeschooler from a rural, empty town - she’s not intelligent or talented, look at where she grew up and how she was raised!”
Truthfully, Ratatouille gave me hope and told me that just because I started out small doesn’t mean my big dreams won’t someday be realized. Anton Ego even said “Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere”… and I’ve believed it since the moment I heard it.
You know, this is going to sound really random but another thing I’ve always wondered is why Horst is German. I mean, clearly, he is. He has the accent, as well as your typical blonde hair and blue eyes which are stereotypical of the Germans. (There are a lot of stereotypes in this movie, huh? That’s another thing that bothers me about it sometimes…) Understood, there are plenty of Germans in France… but the fact that the old lady, Mabel, was once involved in the French Resistance during WWII, and the fact that Horst is German just seems too ironic. (Of course, you know me… I already have a back story for this… But I’ll save you the trouble of reading the whole long spiel.)
Wow. And that’s not even half the discussion I could come up with for this movie.
totoro: Oh man, I would absolutely love doing a commentary with you guys… unfortunately, given my lack of ability to use the computer whenever I want to (parents ) and my lacking of a good quality microphone, not sure how well it’d work out for me.
Besides, I’d probably be the only one talking through that entire movie.
little_chef: I smell a fanfic coming… I never thought about a link between Horst and Mabel before! Maybe Mabel may have encountered one of Horst’ ancestors in the war… the story possibilities!
Don’t feel too bad about coming from a rural environment, at least you’re a ‘local’ in America. It’s much harder for immigrants to be ‘naturalized’ into a foreign environment, though it’s not impossible. I say this from my personal experience. I’m supposedly Malaysian, but I have very little ‘roots’ to my hinterland, and feel more at ‘home’ in Singapore and Australia. And I watch American shows and movies all the time. Yet I feel like an ‘alien’ when I’m out on the streets, or conversing with the natives compared to my hometown. It’s this seeming disparity between your birthplace and your chosen place of ‘belonging’ that spoke volumes to me when I watched Ratatouille. That, and the ‘against all odds’ tale, too.
Wow, I used a lot of quotation marks back there. But yeah, it ain’t too bad to dream, as long as you keep working towards it!
I have to agree with totoro. It’s been almost exactly a year since we had a Rat commentary (oh, the lame sig I made back then!). Maybe it’s time to open the kitchen again?
TDIT: Man, I’ve had a fanfiction written about all of this for almost 3 years now. Unfortunately, it’s waaaay too long and tangled up to even consider posting, so for the past few days I’ve been writing out my plans for revisions and such. It was such a good fanfic, and it never got a chance 'cuz it got so long… If you want, I could PM you the connection I made between Mabel and Horst… (I actually have a LOT of backstory kinda thought out for the movie, but it would take a fanfic to correctly explain it all… )
I can also see where you’re coming from about the whole immigrant thing. That sounds like it must feel tough to fit in with the world sometimes. Ratatouille gives us all hope that we could fit in somehow and someday; as Gusteau himself said, we “must not let anyone define [our] limits because of where [we] come from - [our] only limit is [our] soul.”
Bleh, the commentary sounds like so much fun, but I don’t think I’d be able to pull it together. I don’t have any privacy at my house (like, NONE. You can hear someone talking on the opposite side of the house ), so trying to plan a time where I’d have a couple hours alone in peace without any disturbances or background noise is next to impossible. I can’t spare to pull out even $20 from my iMac savings, and I can’t really beg my parents for a nice headset since we’re all so financially strapped right now. The most ideal thing would be to borrow someone’s MacBook (or any laptop with a mic built in), but I don’t know anyone who could lend me theirs for a couple days just to record a commentary. Maybe things will change. I’ll talk it over later with you guys in the commentary thread.
On the subject of deep discussion of this film, don’t even get me started on their decision to kill Gusteau…
Oh yes, do PM me what you think about Mabel and Horst, little_chef. I’m very curious to see what you come up with!
Perhaps you can stay over at a friend’s place (provided they don’t mind you using your computer for a few hours) or booking a private lab in your school if they have one? Anyway, I’m sure we can work out a solution.
I thought the decision to kill Gusteau was shocking in the beginning, but it’s quite interesting that Remy never got to meet his idol in real-life, and we really never knew if it was indeed his ghost or a figment of Remy’s imagination. It does leave a lot of loose ends regarding Linguini’s past, and his relationship with Skinner before his passing… but I guess they left that to the viewer’s interpretation.
I am also interested in reading this fanfiction myself. But Ratatouille is in some ways like Monsters Inc Jr for me in terms of interest- it’s interesting because you can extrapolate so much from only a little bit, even though they don’t exactly give us a world (and even one connected to ours) to play in fanfic like M.I. does, Ratatouille still manages to pull (some) of this off and give you something to play about and have fun with by just giving hints… So you want to invent something yourself based on what you know/learned about the whole parents issue. Experimentation as it were. You only have a little taste as it were of something you want to really sink your teeth into- but you have to do it yourself! Make your own full meal! You smelt and tasted the soup! Maybe even some SOME of the work process- try making something for yourself based on what you already know even if it is limited!
-Gets smacked for overusing this cookery anology-
I REALLY should buy the DVD. I need to rewatch. I only watched it twice when it came out in the cinemas though it managed to stick.
-The masses gasp-
Yes I don’t own this movie (yet). In fact the only movies I do own are Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, WALL-E and the Incredibles.
I don’t know why either! I thought it was one of their more interesting movies too in some respects.
Hope you don’t mind me for double posting- but does anyone think the view of humans by rats as an interesting thing?
Remy’s father automatically says that humans are too dangerous. Humans are just a source of their food at best and they want nothing to do with them. Remy doesn’t really agree, seems to give the impression that humans are just ignorant perhaps of certain things (though they are creative).
What other things could be taken for this? A theme of gaining understanding by agreeing to work together to achieve something they want/need in the case of Linguini and Remy and so starting a friendship which may have never happened otherwise?
A theme of the different backgrounds people can come from, the ignorance which sometimes prevades when people stick ‘to their own kind’ all their lives in some rats case sometimes? That prejudice does (and it does in real life) also exist in the less well off backgrounds against those in better social positions- instantly slapping a certain people with a defining trait/stereotype? And there was a theme that minds CAN change all the same, and it’s never too late to do so?
Not thinking too much, all that is part of the utter, delightful surprise of the film. It’s tough to see how any viewer could have predicted the outcome in terms of story or philosophical statement. There is the “of course” noted re: rats in a restaurant’s kitchen while there’s also the appreciation of themes quoted above. One can understand rationally that the restaurant must close while emotionally perceiving that prejudice drives that outcome. All of it comes together in the film and makes sense with the deftest of artistic touches.
It’s difficult to see how any production company other than Pixar could have conceived of Ratatouille and had it greenlighted based on its central idea and themes…although there was Being John Malkovich. It’s reassuring to know that the “impossible” curveball can still find a path over home plate.
I’m sorry I never better responded to some of the posts you guys made here, but honestly I’d forgotten all about this thread until just a little while ago, when I was pondering some things about the film that I kind of wanted to bring to light. I didn’t want to make a whole new topic, so I’ll use this one!
I’m not sure if any of you have taken the time to do this (or maybe I’m the only one that has, since I’ve probably over-analyzed this movie to the point of being aware of almost every minute detail ), but has anyone actually read through Renata’s letter to Skinner?
What’s written in it causes me to question something that Skinner says when he’s talking to his lawyer. Here’s the letter Renata wrote:
Now, even though she said she hadn’t ‘told anyone this’, she never specifically said that she never told Gusteau about their baby. Skinner automatically seems to jump to conclusions when he says to Labarthe, “She claims she never told [Alfredo], or Gusteau, and asks that I not tell!”
That bothers me, because I mean, I can’t imagine that she never told any of her possible close friends who the baby’s father was. And she may have even told Gusteau, or he could have heard it from someone who was close to her (Larousse?). But the fact that she never specifically stated she hadn’t told Gusteau makes me wonder if he had an inkling or even full knowledge of the existence of an heir.
I mean, why would he have even written his will the way he did if he didn’t think he had anyone out there to inherit it from him?
If Gusteau didn’t suspect or even know that he had any heirs to inherit the business from him when he died, he would have just written the will saying the business interest passed immediately to his sous-chef, Skinner.
Now the reason I think that Larousse may have been good friends with Renata is because he seems to know immediately who Alfredo is, and he is the one reminding Skinner of Renata and who she was. Idk, it just seems cute to me that Larousse and Renata would have been best friends. I can even see her meeting Gusteau through Larousse, who may have been friends with Gusteau before the restaurant even opened. Those are personal speculations and cute ideas simply based on a few lines, but hey, this movie gives such a broad and blank canvas for people to do just that.
Tell me what you guys think about all this! I probably bored you to death, but I’ve always loved analyzing this movie and trying to figure out how everything may have worked out.
That’s quite an interesting post there, little_chef!
Now I see you connection between Larousse, Alfredo, and Renata. I admit, when they leave things open like that for speculation, you sure can make up a whole bunch of stuff out of just a few lines and details.
Also, how did you get the full text of the letter? I’ve seen that movie many times, and I only get the bits that Remy reads.
Ok, now I have a Ratatouille question for everyone to think about. Did anyone notice that unlike the other chefs (excluding Skinner), Colette never gave Linguini her own backstory, other than she’s the only female chef in the kitchen? I mean, she told about everyone else’s (Lalo running away with the circus, Horst doing time, Pompidou playing cards, and Larousse in the resistance that lost).
little_chef_eva09: The phrase “any living heir” could include nephews/nieces or any family members not predeceased. Courts often target the closest living relative they can find . Sometimes the concept of “per stirpes” applies. Not sure what the rules of inheritance are in France. But it’s interesting to speculate about Renata. Maybe she left town to stay with an aunt in the country or some such…
JustSoWall-eCrazy: Colette is clearly an expatriate Quebecoise. She came to Paris as a student, fell in love, and never went home…then had her heart broken, so she doesn’t want to talk about it. It’s entirely possible that her mother is Edna Mode.
I don’t wanna get in trouble, but this subject has bothered me for a while.
(Of course, you know me… I already have a back story for this… 
) and my lacking of a good quality microphone, not sure how well it’d work out for me.
