Evolution and Creation

[A113]

Note: Although people like me can become very annoying to people of the opposing view, there is no need to insult anyone. Okay?

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bawpcwpn: I’m a 1 on Mr. Dawkins’s list.
TSS: Everyone has trouble keeping the Ten Commandments, so don’t worry.
TS2: You rock!
Rachel: I’m sorry. Please see the proper thread (Sarah Palin and Republicans) for my response. I’m sure i’ve answered your question there, and if i haven’t, PM me. And my view on this? I think neither evolution nor creation should be taught in government-sponsored schools, since they are both only acceptable by faith. Please respond in the other thread.
Fett101: Um…Zeus had sex. He’s no god. And isn’t it interesting how evolution is the only one without the word “theory” in it?

B-on-T, everyone.

[WBoon]

Alright, I just need to point out one more thing.

Fett101: If believing in a concocted theory based off certain evidences believed to be substantial is close-minded, then all scientists are as close-minded as you had put it.

[Fett101]

@rachelcakes1985

you are not in favour of a female president

Well the bible clearly says “get in the kitchen and make me a sammich” Time for more bible quotes perhaps.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - Corinthians 14:34-36

So does that mean they shouldn’t sing or say any of the prayers at all during mass?

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. – Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)

Hey! That’ll give those crazy feminists no reason to demand abortions for rape victims. Just exactly how much is 50 silver pieces these days?

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.-(Deuteronomy 22:23-24

Not sure if that’s better or worse then having to marry your rapist.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

All the civil war was for naught I guess.

[A113]

Fett101: If you don’t understand something about the Bible, PM me and i’ll try to explain it for you. I’ll try, since i’m still a growing Christian.

[Sky]

Fett101 already gave confusing/contradicting quotes from the Bible. Maybe you could explain them out in the open to educate us all?

[WBoon]

Fett101’s intention for posting those quotes might be merely inquiring their true meanings, but Fett did point out some relevant points about the bible.

Sure, we all know that God is perfect and omnipotent, and the bible is never wrong, but in the end, that can only be summed up by our faith in Him, no?

[A113]

I’m not stupid enough to fall for that trap. Only if you’ll be open to what God is saying through me.

[Sky]

What trap? If you can explain something to someone in a PM, you can do it in the forum. I’m interested to know the logic behind those Bible verses, too. Especially this one:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

So, it’s the girl’s fault she was raped because she didn’t cry out for help? Ever heard of fight, flight or freeze? Freezing-up during a negative event like rape is a psychological response, but in the Bible this makes her just as guilty as the man (a man in this case.)? Please explain.

[A113]

Why should i explain something to someone who would would believe me anyway? How can someone grow if they were never born?

[Sky]

Please stop asking rhetorical questions, and get to my question. You know it doesn’t make sense, so you’re avoiding answering the rape question.

[WBoon]

Oi, oi, getting a little out of hand, isn’t it? The passage your posted didn’t even mention anything about the dealing of force; just that the maiden had an affair with another man - be it willing or otherwise. The way I see it, it should be the former.

[A113]

Nice try. Okay, here’s my explanation:

First of all, this is a command from God to scream for help if someone has done something evil to them. See the next verses, Deuteronomy 22:25-27.

But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

In this, only the man must be killed because the woman did scream for help, obeying God. But the raper? Tsk tsk.

[WBoon]

@A113

In this, only the man must be killed because the woman did scream for help, obeying God. But the raper? Tsk tsk.

In other words, the concept back then is simple - obey God or die. Isn’t that what you’re implicating, A113?

[A113]

Well, not always. Sometimes, imprisonment applied, and a few other stuff. But yes, the law was extremely strict BC.

[Sky]

Ok, maybe that wasn’t a good example of a rape passage, since it seems to be unclear, on second thought. But do they always call married women “girls,” though? And wouldn’t “violated” suggest rape?

A113, but in cases of rape, some people can’t scream because they are too scared. Are they disobeying God, then?

[A113]

Depends on what version you use.

And they wouldn’t need to worry if they loved God, because God will provide.

[Sky]

See, if the Bible is the word of God, shouldn’t all versions be the same? Why confuse Christians like that? Provide what? Not safety from being raped, that’s for sure.

[WBoon]

The term, “scream” might be just a metaphor. It might had also implicated that the victim had no desires of going through with the rape, not necessary screaming literally. Whether the victim enjoys it or not… well, that’s kinda an awkward topic better left for the future. But in any case, if the victim doesn’t want it at all, then she will not be sinning and thus, not considered as deserving the fate of death.

[A113]

See, there’s also the New Testament now, so we have even less to worry about. See, God sent Jesus to die for our sins, and then sent the Holy Spirit to guide us instead of the Law. All Christians have been given special gifts by the Holy Spirit, and one of these is communicating in different languages.

Missionaries do not have time to teach Hebrew/Greek to all the people they come across; they instead translate the Bible into their native language. One of these languages was English, but translating anything manually or automatically always turns out not perfect.

And what does God provide? Guidance. He’s certainly not with the raper. Also, He must send some hardships for people, but He will not make us sin.

[Fett101]

@WBoon

Fett101: If believing in a concocted theory based off certain evidences believed to be substantial is close-minded, then all scientists are as close-minded as you had put it.

Not really. Please see the list of obsolete scientific theories. Science isn’t set in stone and scientists aren’t held down by the word of a single old book.

@A113

In this, only the man must be killed because the woman did scream for help, obeying God. But the raper? Tsk tsk.

Well I bet she was asking for it the way she was dressed.

@A113

See, there’s also the New Testament now, so we have even less to worry about. See, God sent Jesus to die for our sins, and then sent the Holy Spirit to guide us instead of the Law.

So then the old testament is out? Aren’t most bible verses concerning homosexuality in the ot?

And that corinthian quote about women in church was nt.

Mark 7:25-27
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare [2] her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

War brides. Excellent.

@A113

Why should i explain something to someone who would(n’t) would believe me anyway? How can someone grow if they were never born?

The same applies likewise, but many people here have still posted our own side of the debate. That is what debate is after all, as it get’s boring when you’re arguing with someone who agrees with you.