Thanks for your query, Masterjedi461. The key word here is “not respected”.
Although ignorance of the law does not mean one is excused (It is in fact one of the key cornerstones of the legal system, I remember learning the Latin phrase in uni: “Ignorantia juris non excusat”), we have been pretty lenient on the enforcement of this forum rule in the past. The reasons why we’re doing now what we should have done ages ago are cited by Phileas in his earlier post, as well as a few members acting that they are entitled to posting trading-related posts and demanding that the rules be changed for their sake.
Having said that, though, I understand your concern about newbies not being aware. My rule of thumb when dealing with people is: Should they know better? Personally, I am willing to forgive one for his/her ignorance over arrogance. So if a person didn’t know better and committed a mistake, one can’t fault that person. But if one knows the rules, breaks them, and expects us to turn a blind eye, then, really, that person deserves to face the music.
So lemme address your query: There are several safeguards in place to prevent this thread from being prematurely shut down.
A mod would usually consult others before taking any action. This means anything from banning a spambot, closing down a thread, to even writing a reply to a problematic member. The only times that we make “executive decision” is when it is a clear-cut action, like an obvious spam post about Gucci bags or get-rich-quick schemes.
Mods employ a “three-strikes” rule on problematic members. This means we warn the offender three times before permanently banning them. Even then, warnings are only for serious transgressions, like harrasing another member on purpose or posting objectionable content. Most of the time, we let minor incidents slide, so we don’t even get to the “first strike”. In this case, if a member posted a trading post, we would delete the person’s post and give him three times to learn his mistake after informing him through PM or in public.
Even when we shut down a thread, we either lock it and leave it in public, or send it to Archives where it can’t be seen by the public. I’m not sure what criteria we go by to decide if we lock or send, but basically the thread will be preserved in case we need to pull it out for some reason. The only threads we outright delete are, again, spam threads about shampoo products and weight-loss pills.
So there, I don’t think it will ever come to a point where this thread will be deleted to the point it can’t be recovered in some way. Unless a huge number of members decide to break the rules (which were in place long before they arrived) and act like we owe them a living. And even then, all the Mods have to collectively agree that the thread should be removed to keep the forum legal.
And, of course, you can always appeal to us or ask us any questions here in public or through PM.
Also, good idea on amending the title. I think I’ll go do that now.
Thanks for the quick response TDIT! That sets my mind at ease knowing that there is a full process set up to address any potential issues in the future. Not that I had any doubt in operators of this forum, the wording of the post just worried me that it was a touchy subject where one wrong post could potentially close the thread down and sent off to the archives. Thank you again for allowing us to discuss here even with all of the ups and downs we’ve had using this thread, I know that it definitely excites me to see a notification email telling me someone has posted something new here.
While I appreciate the thought out response to the rules that will now be enforced (I’m an undergrad law student myself) it might be nice to have an abridge version of them. Not everyone will have the willpower or time to read that lengthy response. Make it simple!
I’m still confused about how far is too far regarding the rule. If we’re not allowed to buy/sell/trade here, can we link to a place where we can? Are we not allowed to link to ebay auctions? Tell people to email us if interested in something? While there is a Facebook group for fans, even though a number of us are part of it, it still wouldnnt be the same community of people with the same tastes. Can someone create an alternate place to go to do what we cant here, and still actively link to it?
I believe that it would be ok to post something like this… “I just so happen to need 1 more Alien for my collection. Does anyone know where I can get one? PM me if you do, and I’ll give you my email address. ” I think something along those lines would be appropriate. That way, all you did was discuss what you need in your collection, but you did your business away from the forums.
Here is a great website for character detail when creating your customs. It allows you to turn the characters in a 3d 360 view. When you get there, click on the “characters” tab on the left side of the page to view characters. Hope this helps!
Anyone still on here that has customized a Troll? I just swapped out the brown eyes for blue eyes and now all I have to do is create the bathing suit. Any tips on how to create the bathing suit? I have the swimsuit pattern, but I don’t have a pattern for the actual swimsuit, so if anyone has that, please PM me. If printed, what kind of paper do I print the pattern on? Thanks
You’re welcome, Masterjedi461. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Yeah, perhaps! I apologise as I tend to ramble and be verbose at times. Cool on being an undergrad law student. I studied law as a pre-U requirement, I didn’t take it as a degree, but my brother is pursuing it as part of his combined degree.
Well, the alternative is that the Mods do away with all these safeguards and simply wholesale ban everything or act super-draconian. I don’t think any of us would want that, so better to be err on the side of caution, don’t ya think?
I will consult with the Mods on this, but in my opinion, providing access to a place which might serve a financial conflict of interest with Pixar or Disney is not advisable.
This is different from linking to a Youtube account of fan videos, or a deviantART account of fanart, as there is no money, profit-based or otherwise, to be made from the resulting link (unless you’re a Youtube celebrity who earns on click-rates, or you get a kickback from your blog from ads, which to my knowledge, none of us are).
This is also different from, say, linking to an official Disney/Pixar merchandise site as, again, there’s no conflict of financial interest (since the money or part of it goes to Disney/Pixar, because they own the copyright).
Again, this is providing a means for members to access sites which will generate financial gains for an individual who is making something off a copyrighted character. So I would say no.
This method is less direct than providing a link, but it is still not recommended. Again, I will consult with the Mods on this. Thanks for bringing these queries up. Until then, please do not do any of the above.
Any of you are free to create an alternate place to buy/sell/trade replicas (sorry for the motherhood statement), but since we do not endorse it or are affiliated with it, we would prefer if no links are posted here to promote such a site.
I don’t think of the unofficial replicas as heinous as drugs either, although making money from trademarked characters is technically against the law.
Again, we return to the purpose of this site, which is to discuss and talk about Pixar movies and other things in general. Trading, buying, or selling unofficial merch based on copyrighted characters has never been the intention of any of the creators from the very start, and as we’ve stated several times, this has always been the rule. Even if it isn’t, we reserve the right to create or enforce any law that we feel serves the best interest of the forum at large.
To use an analogy, when I enter a library, even though it is inconvenient for me to silence my phone because I want to talk with my friends, or eat and drink because I am hungry, or run around because I feel like having a spot of exercise, I have to abide by the rules. They are there for a purpose (so that I don’t annoy people who want to read, so that I don’t dirty the place with crumbs, so that I don’t crash into bookshelves or people), not because the librarians get a kick out of enforcing it or feeling like creating them to make life difficult for users. I might feel it is unfair that I have to follow these rules, even though they were there long before I even knew the library existed. But if I want to talk on the phone, eat, run around, etc. I am always entitled to do it somewhere else. The additional caveat for this forum is that we can’t be seen by association in public with unofficial merch sites too.
Promoting fanmade creations like fan videos, fan art, fanfiction, reviews, etc is fine because the creator doesn’t earn a single cent. He/she does it for the pure love of the studio and the work gone into creating it. That is not to say that replica-makers don’t have passion, because they are also willing to invest the effort into making the toy based on a movie they love. But once money comes into picture, it turns into a different beast, and this is one legal area that we would like to (and as the forum admins, have every right to) avoid.
This is regardless of whether the replica creator actually makes a profit. It is a financial conflict of interest that might get the forum into trouble with Disney and Pixar, and then not only will there be no site for fans of unofficial Toy Story replicas, but everyone else who doesn’t come here to trade to begin with.
If there are any grey areas (like the points you’ve mentioned), please raise them with us and we will deliberate among ourselves. If there are any loopholes we’ve missed, we will inform everyone and as I’ve mentioned in my last post, there will be many safeguards to jump through before we resort to “last-straw” measures. We technically don’t have to create so many safeguards because we run the place, but we owe you such a duty. Your duty and responsibility in turn is to read every announcement we make, err on the side of caution when in doubt, and abide by the rules as best you understand it.
Besides, trading Toy Story replicas is not the be-all-and-end-all for members here. There’s tons of other things to do here and other members outside the Toy Story fandom to interact with!
Ok, I get not buying or selling. But there is no financial gain in trading. For example, if I want an alien and someone else wants a buzz, why can’t we send each other the item? There is no financial gain. Just swapping characters.
No buying or selling is just pixarplanet rule (that we do abide by), but in the real world, it is not against the law to sell or trade your toys outside the realm of this website. To believe you can get in any kind of trouble for selling your toys is just like saying that you can’t sell your car, because Honda, Ford, or whatever company isn’t making a profit on your sale. It’s just naïve.
Now let’s stop talking about Buying/Trading and get back to discussing customs and replicas. If anyone wants to deal, just do it off of the forum.
Just saw those myself a few days ago at my local Walmart. It’s definitely cool to see that they are continuing to release merchandise that centers around these characters even when there isn’t a movie to support it.
Even if it is a one-for-one trade with no profit involved, there is a financial value attached to the items being traded. If there was no such quid-pro-quo system, one could give someone an alien toy for a mansion in the Bahamas, to use an exaggerated example. The fact that they are being traded means that there is something of financial value involved. This also includes fan-made replicas, which require the purchase of raw materials (glue, thread, etc). I do not have a direct contact with Phileas’ legal counsel, but this is my personal understanding of the situation.
This is distinct from sharing with people a fanart that you made, or a fanfic of a shipping that you would’ve liked to see happen in a movie. These are fan creations done for the pure love of the studio and medium (be it video, art, etc), without any intention for these items to be sold or traded for something of equal value. Of course, this also means that showing a picture of a toy you bought from eBay, or a fan-created replica that you made, is fine. I’ve done this before with merch I bought from other fandoms. It is merely a discussion, a chance to show off something really cool you purchased, with no intention to trade with another forum member.
Maybe. Maybe not. That’s up for eBay to decide, as they have their own separate rules, terms and conditions, policies, etc. But as the saying goes: “When in Rome, do what the Romans do.” And here, the rule is that we do not allow buying/selling/trading of goods, period. It is not that we think you are criminals, or that you should turn yourselves into the law, et cetera. We simply want to avoid any legal ramifications that allowing such a practice would entail.
I am no lawyer by trade. If you would like to seek further clarification, please feel free to contact Phileas. But I have attempted to explain the reasons behind our decision to the best of my ability, and I hope you can see where we’re coming from.
First off, thank you everyone, for abiding by the rule since the ban. Most of you have been very cooperative and understanding, and we appreciate that.
Before we enforced the February deadline, there have been transgressions (according to other Mods I’ve spoken with). And the impetus for why the rule was created in the first place was alluded to in Phileas’ July 9, 2010 post. Whether the claims of members being scammed are true or not is besides the point. It is something that we shouldn’t allow to happen, and which we owe a duty to every forum member (not just Toy Story replica collectors) to protect.
Yes, I am aware that secondhand markets exist. Interestingly, this is something that the videogame industry is trying to stop with their upcoming consoles and DRMs (and that in itself is a whole discussion for another thread).
But I have stated in my previous post that the issue here is of fanmade replicas that use copyrighted characters. I personally have no issue with legally-purchased official merch that one wants to sell or trade to a friend or family member. But with our limited manpower and time, it is impossible to discern from every post whether the item in question is an official merch or not, not to mention that a trader might lie or withhold information in the post about the nature of the item.
Also, it was never the intention of this forum to serve as a trading post. We are here to have meaningful (and not so meaningful) discussions about the studio, its films and other stuff in general. Fan creations made without any intention to trade for money or anything else are also encouraged. Bartering or the transaction of money or goods is not the reason why this forum existed in the first place.
Let me use another analogy: It is like a student going to class, and setting up a videogame session with his classmates. He can’t be arrested for doing this, as it is not against the law to play videogames. But he is breaking a rule that the school has in place, which is no playing videogames during class. The intention of attending class is to learn whatever subject the teacher is teaching, and this can’t be done if a few aren’t paying attention. The rule wasn’t there to label gamers as criminals, or as an ego trip for the teacher. It was simply there because that was the intention of holding a class session, the class’ purpose for existing. The classroom may have also been built to hold parent-teacher associations group meetings or other purposes, but gaming sessions is not one of them. The rule is also to protect other classmates who come there to learn and not play videogames.
The student may feel that they can conduct a gaming session while still being able to absorb what the teacher is teaching, or without disturbing other classmates who come for a different reason. That is besides the point. There may also be other schools (theoretically) that might allow gaming sessions to be held during class time. This is also besides the point. There is nothing stopping a student from playing a handheld console in the hallway outside class hours, or holding a gaming session in one of the function rooms after school. If the student feels he has videogaming rights infringed, or that his gamer friends will be abandoned if he goes to school, he is free to arrange a session with them at the local arcade or at his house. It’s just a pity that he will be missing out on the wonderful things he could learn about the Industrial Revolution from his History teacher, or making passes at that pretty girl sitting across from him in the next row.
The reason we were talking about buying/trading for the last few posts was because a few members in earlier posts have raised valid questions that deserve an answer. Hence, I was addressing their concerns to the best of my ability.
Also, with regards to Kyle’s questions:
I have run his above queries by the other Mods, and after much discussion, we have decided that the all the above should not be allowed.
The reason is that linking to trading sites, Facebook groups, ebay auctions, e-mail accounts, forums, et cetera using this website provides a means for members to trade. And this is no different than asking for info on buying/selling/trading outright. We must not be seen to be affiliated, endorsing or associated with this practice in any way, especially when it is posted by our own members.
Again, there is nothing stopping any of you from doing any of the above outside of Pixar Planet. You are all free to create another forum to conduct these actions. You can then e-mail each other or PM on Facebook to share this new site with each other, while still continuing to hang out here for discussions about what merch you already own or other stuff in general. But as long as any member is using this website as a means for communications to trade/buy/sell and transactions, he/she is continuing to violate the “No trading” rule.
I’m sorry, but that’s what the Mods and I have decided on. But thank you for your queries, it’s good to clear things up so that everyone is on the same page.
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If there is something I cannot answer, I will ask my other Mods. And if there is any question you would like answered, please do not hesitate to ask me or any of the other Mods. Please remember that this is a not-for-profit site and we have lives and commitments outside the forum, so we might take awhile to answer any of your queries. Also bear in mind that we will try to be as fair and reasonable as possible. We expect you, in turn, to be respectful of the rules and other members to the best of your ability and understanding.
Also, I would like to add that it is alright to break a rule if you weren’t aware of it, or to accidentally insult another person or a Mod if you didn’t mean it. However, the Mods will look at each individual case and they reserve the right to take action as they see fit.
Seriously? We cant even post links to ebay auctions? That seems a bit overkill. There is no liability for you guys if its not done on your site, and you can ask any lawyer and they will verify that for you. Ebay is a 100% lawful site. People list an item for sale, somebody buys it, its no different than what Disney Store does. If Disney had an issue with their products being sold on Ebay, they would have sued Ebay a long time ago. In fact, Disney even owns ad space and works with Ebay. I dont trade or sell on this forum, but I feel like this is getting way out of control and I think this particular addendum(the ebay rule) needs to be reconsidered. Ebay can be a valuable resource not only for the purchase of items that are not available in stores anymore, but also for the ability to show new products that are not yet being found in stores. You cite that by allowing links to ebay, you promote trading. That is simply untrue. Not only do you guys not endorse trading in your forum, but Ebay itself hold an anti-trading stance as well. I can understand(though i dont see why its a legal issue for you guys) how Facebook or other forums promote trading on their sites, but a site like Ebay that has strict policies against trading does no such thing. Ban me if you feel necessary, but I implore you to not make this mistake.
EDIT: A comparison I thought of was this. Somewhere it was mentioned that there was a fear about people making money off of items Disney hlds the rights to. Well as I already stated Disney has no qualms with Ebay, but those item,s being sold on ebay is no different then if they were sold at a yard sale which is again, completely legal. Disney got their money off of their copyright when the item was originally sold. Unless someone passes it off as their character, ebay auctions are left alone by Disney as their is no copyright infringement.
(since she was delayed with the infinity and beyond range)